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Old 07-12-2018, 08:03 AM   #41
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Originally Posted by dsvitak View Post
I have been to Olympia, in Greece, and read that the time for 100 yards was about 13.5 seconds. I was running 11.8 seconds for 100 meters back in the early seventies.
A Stadion, which is what they ran at the ancient Olympics, is 176m. That's closer to 200 yds. There's surely no way of knowing how fast they ran, since mechanical timing devices had not yet been invented.

How fast could you run it naked from a standing start, as they did in those days?
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Old 07-12-2018, 09:49 AM   #42
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Originally Posted by pilight View Post
A Stadion, which is what they ran at the ancient Olympics, is 176m. That's closer to 200 yds. There's surely no way of knowing how fast they ran, since mechanical timing devices had not yet been invented.

How fast could you run it naked from a standing start, as they did in those days?
This is a 42 year old memory. I distinctly remember thinking that the times they posted were easily achieved. Easily.
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Old 07-12-2018, 10:50 AM   #43
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Look at golf, another sport with a long history. Even with improved improved training, equipment, and nutrition people aren't breaking Ben Hogan's records on the same courses.
The courses are not the same. Just as an example Augusta National has been changed many times but more often in the 2000's than the 50 years spanning the 1930's to 1980's.
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Old 07-12-2018, 12:00 PM   #44
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Putting aside for a moment the issue with competing entertainment, which certainly does have some impact, I think one of the main issues with attendance overall is the cost relative to disposable income and erosion of consumer spending power (A lot of the "keep-up" leveraging at the household level has already occurred).

My opinion is that based on the T.V. contracts / revenue / streaming and viewership as was discussed earlier in this thread, most MLB teams would be much better off filling these stadiums and creating the Live-game aesthetic to push viewership (and also actually having folks buying tickets and using the concessions), rather than have empty seats.

In addition, live-viewing will help grow the fan-base (particularly families), which in-turn buys more tickets, and outside the stadium, will be more likely to buy apparel, swag, watch it on T.V. etc.… I also think a greater push by MLB in supporting rec-baseball in their local markets would help as well.
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Old 07-12-2018, 03:29 PM   #45
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About ten years ago, the Cardinals swapped a perfectly fine stadium for a new one that seats about 44k.

The Cardinals get about 42k per game, and the stadium is at near capacity for every single game.

It is hard as hell to get a ticket to go see a game in St. Louis, without paying premium prices. Trust me on this one....

Even the cheap seats are not cheap. Gone are the days where I could go see a game for $5, and buy a $3 soda.

Back in the '80's, for several years, I was stationed at Scott AFB, just about 20 miles from the stadium, and get into a game for free, just by showing my ID card. Seriously...completely free. THAT stadium held 55k fans, and there were always a bunch of seats that sat empty.

A good seat is $40..for a family of four, plus drinks and food, is close to $300. Hell..I could drive to Chicago for a couple of days, go see the Natural History Museum, and check out the the nightlife.

MLB is just costly as all get out, in my opinion, and I am the biggest stathead/baseball fan I have ever met. God only knows what the casual fan feels about the potential value of actually going to a game.


aren't NFL and NBA are more expensive though?
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Old 07-12-2018, 03:57 PM   #46
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aren't NFL and NBA are more expensive though?
Different products. Lesser opportunities to attend. NFL offers a tenth of the home dates MLB does. NBA half. I live in NC. And I know a couple families who save all year for a family trip to DC for one Redskins game. Another family that does so for the Panthers. One 8th of the home season. Families don't do the equivalent for baseball, 10 games.

Cheapest Panthers/Bengals tickets for a family of 4 = $160 +tax
Cheapest Nats/Braves tickets for a family of 4 (10 games) = $520 +tax

Once you proportion the demand/supply factor, baseball is more expensive.
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Old 07-12-2018, 04:08 PM   #47
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fair enough, I can see where you are coming from in that respect.

I see it more from the perspective of an out of towner that visits a MLB/NBA/NFL city once a year, so the cost of one game is a bigger difference to me
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Old 07-12-2018, 08:36 PM   #48
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Originally Posted by Calvert98 View Post
Putting aside for a moment the issue with competing entertainment, which certainly does have some impact, I think one of the main issues with attendance overall is the cost relative to disposable income and erosion of consumer spending power (A lot of the "keep-up" leveraging at the household level has already occurred).

My opinion is that based on the T.V. contracts / revenue / streaming and viewership as was discussed earlier in this thread, most MLB teams would be much better off filling these stadiums and creating the Live-game aesthetic to push viewership (and also actually having folks buying tickets and using the concessions), rather than have empty seats.
All of that does not explain the larger decline in minor league baseball attendance, and the minors expressly sell themselves as affordable family entertainment.
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Old 07-13-2018, 01:14 AM   #49
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There are many reason for the decline in attendance in baseball.

1. people want things faster, and baseball has too long and too many games.

2. Other forms of entertainment. For me I like various different streaming tv options. I enjoy VR, reading, spending time with family, management sims

3. This could be a me thing, but I really enjoy MLS which has a decent history and games take 90 minutes, are 1-2x a week, and very competitive.

4. Regular seasons games are rather pricey for decent seats.

5. As someone already mentioned, when baseball season is going all the talk is on NFL/NBA news which doesn't help baseballs image. I really miss the old talk shows that would go deep into talking about baseball daily.

6. Young stars on non-competitive teams. Most of the stars in baseball are very young, so they don't have a history. Some of these young stars are not making deep runs into the playoffs were more people are watching.

I think radical change probably does need to happen whether some of us want to admit it or not. I am okay with new extra inning rule that are using in the minors as I was never a fan of long extra inning bullpen killing marathons.

I know that the NFL is still the top league in NA, but I think they are poorly managed and I feel baseball does a better job. You are just not going to win some fans over, because baseball is not football.
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Old 07-14-2018, 05:10 AM   #50
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Originally Posted by Cobra Mgr View Post
People may check "game length" on the questionaire, but I don't believe that is what they really mean. I think it goes back to no action. No one complains about how long it takes for grass to grow, but they would if they had to watch it. The lack of action makes it seem longer. College football games sometimes goes into 4 hrs, but they aren't having attendance problems that I know of.
I used to listen to every Yankee game on the radio at work. There was a time I could name you every player on the 40 man roster after about a week.

What has slowed me down over the years is the pace. As a kid watching baseball growing up and even when I was in my 20s I don't remember it moving this slow. This could just be my imagination or the slow pace of the game wearing thin on me over the years, I don't know.

The one thing I know would revitalize my love for this game is if they enforced the rule for pitchers to go to the plate. What is it, 12 seconds? At the same time not let batters get out of the box. I realize there would be acceptions like pitchers going to first, or batters being shaved.

I think that would up the pace, shorten the game, and add a little more excitement to it.
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