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Old 12-10-2018, 12:03 AM   #1
Cobra Mgr
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Lee Smith & Harold Baines to the HOF

Lee Smith I can see. I really, really liked Harold Baines. Really did. He was one of my favorite players from my pre-teens on. But I just don't think he was good enough for the HOF. Solid, solid professional hitter. I'm happy for him. But if I take away sentiment, I couldn't qualify him.
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Old 12-10-2018, 10:41 AM   #2
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Agreed on the two of them CM. Closers are so hard to judge because their workload is so much lower than anybody, yet their work is absolutely vital due to when it takes place.

Obviously, Rivera is a mortal lock, and Hoyt Wilhelm is too. Gossage should absolutely be there. Eck as well, but I consider him to be a bit of a hybrid guy, and he's easily there. After that, it's a bit tricky to judge to me. Based on the others who are already in (Fingers, Sutter, and Hoffman), absolutely Smith should be there. As he's going in though, Billy Wagner should go in too. A very brief career in terms of innings, but he was sensational. Don't sleep on John Hiller and Joe Nathan either. Hiller doesn't have the saves numbers though, so he's probably out. That doesn't diminish how effective he was in my eyes.

I'm like you on Baines. Long career. Very good career. I see the longevity, and I respect that, but I don't see the greatness. I'm very happy for him as well as he seems like a rock solid individual who went about his work very quietly with class and dignity. I'm also happy for The Game who's been stumping for him forever. He's probably hung over as hell today from celebrating last night. Good on you guy, he's in now.
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Old 12-10-2018, 12:06 PM   #3
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No issue with Lee Smith. If you’re going to put in closers other than Rivera, he was one of the better closers for a very long time so he fits in well with that group.

Baines getting in is a bit strange. All he pretty much had was stat accumulation, he was never considered even a borderline candidate and his voting totals were always in single digits. His career WAR is around the same as the group of players below that, and there are much bigger names like Mattingly or Strawberry who you’d think would be elected before him.

Hopefully though this means my childhood favourite Tim Wallach has a shot
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Old 12-10-2018, 02:22 PM   #4
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Baines getting in is a joke.
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Old 12-10-2018, 03:20 PM   #5
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Let's look at the two primary positions that Baines played in his career: RF and DH. Larry Walker, Reggie Smith, Dwight Evans, and Edgar Martinez all should absolutely be in the HoF, and not just because Baines got there, but because their careers warrant it. The first three were fantastic all around players. You name it, they could do it. All around players seem to get burned when it comes to the Hall, while those who are not as multi-dimensional, but strong in one particular area tend to get in. Sad to say it, but that's the way it seems to be. Edgar was just a ridiculously amazing hitter, whose hitting should overcome the fact he was primarily a DH, but so far it hasn't. .312/.418/.515/.933 with a 147 OPS+, a 147 wRC+, and more walks than strikeouts over an 8500+ plate appearance career. I mean where's the love for this guy? Ugh.
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Old 12-10-2018, 04:09 PM   #6
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I agree with the general sentiment here. Lee Smith Hall of Famer sure no problem with that. Harold Baines = very good player I liked him, sounds like a great guy but not a Hall of Famer. Baines is going in for his hitting the guy never hit 30 home runs he never even hit 40 doubles in a year, if I'm not mistaken he never even scored a hundred runs in a year. Only one season WAR over 4......
I'm beginning to sound like a GM at contract time...
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Old 12-10-2018, 04:49 PM   #7
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Smith: Long overdue.


Baines: I really don't have a huge problem with him getting in, but I think there are other guys who should have been in first, like Edgar Martinez, Lou Whitaker, or Fred McGriff. Hell, if you're going on "players who were at some point the best, or at least Top 5", in the game, even Don Mattingly or Dale Murphy should get in before him. Not quite a joke, but a little iffy.
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Old 12-10-2018, 05:25 PM   #8
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Rusty Staub 2020.
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Old 12-10-2018, 05:46 PM   #9
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Yes on Smith no on Bains, for the reasons already mentioned.
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Old 12-10-2018, 09:33 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spleen1015 View Post
Baines getting in is a joke.
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Congrats Harold Baines

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Old 12-10-2018, 09:35 PM   #11
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I dont care what anyone says, I'm ecstatic. Finally my all time favorite player is in and i already booked my hotel room. This will be the 2nd time i will go to Cooperstown. i went when Thomas, Maddux, Glavine, TLR, Torre & Cox went in. Was that 2013?
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Congrats Harold Baines

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Old 12-10-2018, 09:44 PM   #12
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I love Baines but come on man.


With Smith; yeah I guess so. He was a good closer for a long time but did anyone that actually watched him when he pitched ever remember thinking "oh boy, if they can just get to the ninth and Smith, this is over"? He just never struck me as a guy that would be in the hall when he was playing. Sort of the reverse of say, Jim Rice. I can remember thinking "damn it, get this guy out because look who's in the batter's box" all the time.


I know, subjective nonsense. I just don't feel either belong.
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Old 12-10-2018, 09:46 PM   #13
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Actually, Baines passes my subjective fan's eye test more than Smith (not that I think he belongs in the hall). I used to alwasy just assume Baines would get on base.
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Old 12-10-2018, 10:29 PM   #14
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Quote:
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I dont care what anyone says, I'm ecstatic. Finally my all time favorite player is in and i already booked my hotel room. This will be the 2nd time i will go to Cooperstown. i went when Thomas, Maddux, Glavine, TLR, Torre & Cox went in. Was that 2013?
Congrats man. Have to admit you were the first person I though of when I heard the news about Harold.
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Old 12-10-2018, 10:34 PM   #15
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I'm done with the Hall of Fame. Let's let Baines in, yet Rose, Bonds, Clemens, McGwire, etc etc have no shot because of "morality" or something. I read a book years ago about some of the questionable characters enshrined and even worse the ones that got in with no credentials because their friends voted them in. It's a baseball museum. If need be open up a cheater/doper/scumbag wing of the hall and put the roids guys in there. If you're offended, you can just not visit that part of the museum.
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Old 12-10-2018, 11:13 PM   #16
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Leafing through some stories regarding the election of Baines and Smith, it sounds like this committee was trying to send a message.

Smith was a no-brainer and should have been in not long after the BBWA decided it was all right to include pitchers who were relievers only among their ranks.

When it came to Baines, I have a feeling that it was a case of committee members Jerry Reinsdorf (White Sox owner) and Tony La Russa (former White Sox manager) throwing their weight around to get Baines selected, in addition to getting a very good/yet not great DH into the Hall.

This will ensure Edgar Martinez is selected by the BBWA next month, and could open the door for players -- although they were not necessarily DHs -- like Dale Murphy, Don Mattingly, Larry Walker and Jim Edmonds, and the list goes on and on, who are all clearly better than Baines, selected in the future.

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Old 12-11-2018, 12:05 AM   #17
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Leafing through some stories regarding the election of Baines and Smith, it sounds like this committee was trying to send a message.

Smith was a no-brainer and should have been in not long after the BBWA decided it was all right to include pitchers who were relievers only among their ranks.

When it came to Baines, I have a feeling that it was a case of committee members Jerry Reinsdorf (White Sox owner) and Tony La Russa (former White Sox manager) throwing their weight around to get Baines selected, in addition to getting a very good/yet not great DH into the Hall.

This will ensure Edgar Martinez is selected by the BBWA next month, and could open the door for players -- although they were not necessarily DHs -- like Dale Murphy, Don Mattingly, Larry Walker and Jim Edmonds, and the list goes on and on, who are all clearly better than Baines, selected in the future.
...And while we're at it...let's get Simba in there. Best catcher not in the Hall of Fame, and it's high time he was.
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Old 12-11-2018, 12:07 AM   #18
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Congrats man. Have to admit you were the first person I though of when I heard the news about Harold.
Same here. Heard the announcement, and The Game was the first person to pop into my head, even though he's just an internet stranger. Enjoy that July weekend in Cooperstown dude!
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Old 12-11-2018, 12:29 AM   #19
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Agree on Simba, as you can likely tell from my photo, he was the favorite player of my childhood.
As an adult, it's probably Scott Rolen, who would probably have been Cooperstown bound if not for Alex Cintron and Hee-Seop Choi ruining his shoulder.
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Old 12-13-2018, 02:26 PM   #20
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Lee Smith is a yes for me and Baines is a no.

I'm a small hall guy so I wouldn't even be electing people in yearly or filling a ballot with 10 names.

With Smith, just like with Edgar and the DH, I feel that not enough respect has been given to the Relief Pitcher position. At the time Lee Smith played, IMO he was one of the best Relief Pitcher's around.

Now I do compare players to players from a long time ago. So if you don't measure up to the All time greats, I wouldn't vote you in. I believe in some of the automatic "in" rules like 3000 hits or 300 wins. But with Smith, there was nothing to use to measure him up to except starters.

When I think of relief pitching and the "save," The first person I think of is Lee Smith's name first.

Baines, just didn't reach any milestones that I believe a Hall of Famer should. As said earlier, if Baines gets in then so should Mcgriff who was only 7 homers short of 500. (Although I don't believe either should get in)
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