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Old 07-17-2019, 05:19 PM   #21
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Haha, awesome!
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Old 07-18-2019, 04:57 PM   #22
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In response to your second point, Angel Hernandez "screwing" a game is entirely subjective. And, yes, debating the merits of a call, or lack thereof, contributes to entertaining and fun debates between fans. And, no, I do not believe that a robo ump will mean that people will quit complaining about calls. It will still happen.

Baseball is losing younger fans for a multitude of reasons, and even the traditional vanguards of the game (ex-players, broadcasters) are complaining that the game is less entertaining to watch, not necessarily because of pace of play, but the overabundance of strikeouts, walks, and fewer balls being put into play.

I have not heard, as of yet, people giving up on Major League Baseball because of umpires. As a matter of fact, they are pretty consistent.
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Old 07-18-2019, 05:10 PM   #23
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I have not heard, as of yet, people giving up on Major League Baseball because of umpires. As a matter of fact, they are pretty consistent.
Yeah I’ve had that thought about it too. There’s no real *need* for it, imo.
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Old 07-18-2019, 06:04 PM   #24
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Yeah I’ve had that thought about it too. There’s no real *need* for it, imo.
Except for getting rid of the suspicion of bias.
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Old 07-18-2019, 10:17 PM   #25
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Except for getting rid of the suspicion of bias.
I think it’s more likely that umpires do their best, and MLB stays on top of them to keep it that way.
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Old 07-19-2019, 12:15 AM   #26
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Always fun to see the "I like things the way they are, even if that way is objectively worse" argument.

If the robo-ump is good (and if it's not good, then we shouldn't adopt it), there is no reasonable argument for not adopting it. For those who will say that bad umpiring is some additional "challenge" for the players to overcome, I would respond that I enjoy watching sports to see players challenge other players. There's nothing enjoyable about seeing a team get jobbed by an official, even if the official is usually very good (which MLB umps typically are).

Does baseball have bigger problems, especially regarding style of play? Absolutely. But there's no rule that says you can only fix one problem at a time.
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Old 07-19-2019, 07:04 AM   #27
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I think it’s more likely that umpires do their best, and MLB stays on top of them to keep it that way.
It is more likely. I'm sure 90% of the umps do their best. But....no human is perfect. Every human has their prejudices, subconscious or not. Umps give certain players the benefit of the doubt w/the strike zone. You can't tell me all umps completely put aside past interactions. If an ump grew up a fan of a certain team, are you really certain they are completely unaffected if that team was on the field? And there is a reason why catchers 'frame" pitches.
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Old 07-19-2019, 09:31 AM   #28
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I guess I'd personally rather have that small % of error to keep human umpires, heh But that's just me. I don't suppose any of us will affect the decision either way.

I like video replay in sports for stuff that is hard for umps/refs to get right in real time - offside in soccer, bang-bang baserunning calls in baseball, stuff like that.
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Old 07-19-2019, 12:50 PM   #29
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I hear your point and see where you are coming from. But, you mention that, if robo umps are good, then they should be used. I believe that human umpires, in general, are already pretty good, so let's keep them. If the goal is a "perfect" strike zone, that is not going to happen. For every call a fan complains went against them is always met with another fan who believes it was the right call. It all depends on which team benefits/loses from the call which determines its "fairness."

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Always fun to see the "I like things the way they are, even if that way is objectively worse" argument.

If the robo-ump is good (and if it's not good, then we shouldn't adopt it), there is no reasonable argument for not adopting it. For those who will say that bad umpiring is some additional "challenge" for the players to overcome, I would respond that I enjoy watching sports to see players challenge other players. There's nothing enjoyable about seeing a team get jobbed by an official, even if the official is usually very good (which MLB umps typically are).

Does baseball have bigger problems, especially regarding style of play? Absolutely. But there's no rule that says you can only fix one problem at a time.
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Old 07-19-2019, 02:13 PM   #30
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Case in point for what I was talking about:

Aaron Boone's creative tirade with umpire gives Yankees a jolt . . . and is T-shirt worthy

Apparently it was awe-inspiring and inspiring in another way; the Yankees went on to sweep the Rays in a doubleheader.

I have no doubt that the rookie umpire was screwing up. He was disciplined in this manner and perhaps officially if he continues his poor performance.

But this HUMAN drama would never happen with a robo ump. Who in his right mind (and without a publicity stunt in mind) would argue with a computer? I've never heard of anyone winning such an argument.

It's the humanity and the entertainment value that I am arguing for here.
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Old 07-19-2019, 02:55 PM   #31
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If I was entertained by people yelling at each other like idiots I would just watch the next iteration of The Real World.

I watch baseball in order to see...baseball

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Old 07-19-2019, 03:01 PM   #32
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If I was entertained by people yelling at each other like idiots I would just watch the next iteration of The Real World.

I watch baseball in order to see...baseball
I would miss Billy Martin kicking dirt on umps, though my mom said that usually made me cry.
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Old 07-19-2019, 03:16 PM   #33
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If I was entertained by people yelling at each other like idiots I would just watch the next iteration of The Real World.
Or The View.

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I watch baseball in order to see...baseball
It's not entertaining for me to see injustice. Players are denied bonuses because they hit .299, not .300. Jobs are lost because a mgr didn't meet the playoff ultimatum by one game. Dreams of playing in the WS are dashed because an ump decided on the last pitch to widen his strike zone. A ring was lost because an ump choked on the play at first.

I respect anyone's preference for human umps. I understand the fear automation brings to the human workforce. But I find them poor excuses for resisting the chance to get things right. It's something I never understood. We should never have to explain why we want things to be done correctly. We can have opinions on methods of getting things done right. We can have nostalgic, sentimental feelings for the way things were done in the past. I get it. But, IMO, they are poor reasons to resist the opportunity to reach closer to perfection.
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Old 07-19-2019, 04:54 PM   #34
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This discussion could go on indefinitely I have enjoyed reading everyone's comments, even those that I disagree with. I think a key question to ask if why are we now having this discussion (other than the obvious that robo umps are being tested)? The Pitch Trax technology has been around for years, yet it is only within the last couple that "robo umps" have been debated and talked about. I think a lot of this has to do with the overturning of PAPSA by the Supreme Court which now allows states to offer legal sports betting. I guess MLB may be concerned of potential lawsuits (think of what happened in the aftermath of the Saints/Rams playoff game) if an umpire presumably blows a call.

As cultural critic Neil Postman argues, every technology gives while it takes away. For every benefit, there is a loss. I guess I do not buy the idea that technology is needed to fix anything, nor do I feel that there is an inherent and logical justification to use it because .'it's there." I am not even convinced there is a significant problem with "bad umpiring" that needs fixing. I've seen several cherry-picked examples here of umpires who have blown calls with disastrous results (Don Denkinger, etc.), yet I think overwhelmingly the calls are made correctly and are not noticed.

To me, the issue is as much about accuracy as it is MLB incorporating more technology to try to draw younger fans who are addicted to it, hence developing a "hipper" image (just like with Statcast). Additionally, there is no proof that robo umpires are, indeed, more accurate than human umpires. This is only now being piloted. Of course, how do you objectively measure the accuracy of this technology, especially when everyone assumes always already that it is more accurate before generating proof that this is the case?

I just feel that it has become a more common pastime to complain about bad umpiring/bad officiating, and the noise that comes from people doing it makes the problem seem worse than what it actually is. "Blown calls" make the highlight reel and then float around the perpetual echo chamber that is social media. Sadly, sports fans love to complain about almost everything (not just sports fans, but people in general, because cynicism and negativity is considered "authentic" and is more likely to get attention).I agree that MLB has several issues it needs to address to secure its long term future. To me, the least pressing is blown strike/ball calls.
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Old 07-19-2019, 05:28 PM   #35
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I think a lot of this has to do with the overturning of PAPSA by the Supreme Court which now allows states to offer legal sports betting. I guess MLB may be concerned of potential lawsuits (think of what happened in the aftermath of the Saints/Rams playoff game) if an umpire presumably blows a call.
Good point. Which is goes to my point about eliminating the perception of bias. I probably should lessen the appearance. Because it will never be eliminated (Like my theory on Tagliblue giving orders to the ref about the "tuck rule". I have zero proof, but I believe it to this day). But the biz of competition is based on the belief that the rules create an even playing field. The more the consumer can be assured of that, the better it is for the industry.

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As cultural critic Neil Postman argues, every technology gives while it takes away. For every benefit, there is a loss. I guess I do not buy the idea that technology is needed to fix anything, nor do I feel that there is an inherent and logical justification to use it because .'it's there." I am not even convinced there is a significant problem with "bad umpiring" that needs fixing. I've seen several cherry-picked examples here of umpires who have blown calls with disastrous results (Don Denkinger, etc.), yet I think overwhelmingly the calls are made correctly and are not noticed.
Again, it is not the matter of "fixing" anything. It is a matter of improvement. Any belief that machines can't do things better than humans in a lot of areas of life is more a position based on sentiment, not fact. While umps may get the majority of calls right, no one can reasonably dispute that a properly programmed computer would get a higher percentage. John Henry may be able to compete w/a steel drill, but he is the only man who could do it. Otherwise, the drill out performs man every other time.
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To me, the issue is as much about accuracy as it is MLB incorporating more technology to try to draw younger fans who are addicted to it, hence developing a "hipper" image (just like with Statcast).
I seriously doubt the motivation for this technology is to be cool. A fine tuned standard, accuracy & costs is more of the reason.
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Additionally, there is no proof that robo umpires are, indeed, more accurate than human umpires. This is only now being piloted. Of course, how do you objectively measure the accuracy of this technology, especially when everyone assumes always already that it is more accurate before generating proof that this is the case?
Of course there is no "proof". Or else they would have been implemented. But history has shown time and time again focused computer "brains" consistently out perform humans in specific tasks.

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I just feel that it has become a more common pastime to complain about bad umpiring/bad officiating, and the noise that comes from people doing it makes the problem seem worse than what it actually is. "Blown calls" make the highlight reel and then float around the perpetual echo chamber that is social media. Sadly, sports fans love to complain about almost everything (not just sports fans, but people in general, because cynicism and negativity is considered "authentic" and is more likely to get attention).I agree that MLB has several issues it needs to address to secure its long term future. To me, the least pressing is blown strike/ball calls.
The only thing that makes it sem like it is more because of social media. People have been shouting "kill the umpire" since the game was invented. We can just have video to verify our anger.
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Old 07-22-2019, 01:36 PM   #36
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a

Baseball has stated that the ball is different . Likely to help hitters.

So use tech to ensure that baseballs are baseballs and not golf balls . I like Homeruns but I also enjoy steals (Wills and Hendersen ) - I like hit and runs - advancing runners -- taking the ball the other way .

People talk about changing the rules to stop the shifting .... just have batters learn to hit the ball through the gap ..... A team has runners on first and second , a right hand batter (pull hitter) and the defensive team has the shift on - HIT THE BALL TO RIGHT FIELD . Get the run .
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Old 07-23-2019, 08:57 AM   #37
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Atlantic League to keep "Robo Umps" for the remainder of the season.
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Old 07-25-2019, 09:08 AM   #38
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Boy! Was this fun last night! Hope you guys got to enjoy the ride.
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Old 07-25-2019, 01:37 PM   #39
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I don't think robo umping is about bad umping, but consistent umping. It ideally makes it so players don't have to "learn X-Ump's strike zone," or prepare for a different strike zone because of the count. The idea behind it is to have a reliable, knowable, consistent strike zone for the entire at bat for every at bat.
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Old 07-25-2019, 01:40 PM   #40
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Dola.

I also think it's become a thing now as opposed to before because pitch tracker, etc. has been pointing out to fans for years how inconsistent (though still very minute) human umpiring can be. Robo ump is an attempt to improve upon that. I see no harm in trying to improve the game of baseball.
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