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Old 12-01-2014, 09:22 AM   #21
Déjà Bru
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Wolf View Post
Damn, you guys can be persistent. Okay. Turn off ratings and stars and be sure to check the box for the AI not to use ratings in its player evaluations. Set your AI evaluation criteria to 0% ratings, 50% current year, 33% last year, 17% two years ago. Set scouts on and to average accuracy or lower if you dare. Use feeder leagues, both HS and college. If it's a fictional league, sim ahead for five years or so, that cycles the feeder leagues and gives every player a statistical history that you can use for evaluation.

Now take over a team. Do not be in Commissioner mode. Do not be unfireable. Start making decisions about players based on stats and scouting reports. Suddenly discover that the game is far, far harder than when you could see ratings and potentials.

You will either love the uncertainty or you will hate it. You will make some great trades and some awful ones. Some of your draft choices will be crap, and some will be golden. You will find yourself agonizing over player decisions - is your third baseman just in a slump or is this the beginning of the end for him? Is your catcher ever going to return to his pre-DL form, or will he be a shadow of what he was from now on? Why does your bullpen suck so badly? Should you draft this guy or that guy? Damn, you're thinking like a real-life GM.

And that's because without ratings and without potentials, you will actually have to make decisions just like a real GM does, and not like an all-knowing video gamer. And you will suddenly find yourself thinking like a GM and dealing with limited information like GM's do.

To me, it's the best way to play OOTP. But it's not for everybody, and you may not like it. But there is a hard core of stats only players who do think it's the best way to play, and if you try it you may find out you are one of us. Or not. But what have you got to lose by trying it? You already bought the game.

"It's your game, play it your way." My way is stats only. Maybe it's your way, too. Maybe it's not. Try it and see.
Nice.
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Old 12-01-2014, 10:17 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by smiller View Post
Wolf: I've been playing this way for a number of months and totally agree that it makes for a much better playing experience. Some questions: How much do you really rely on your scouts if they're just average or low? Are your player decisions almost totally stats-based?
I do pay attention to scouting reports but almost all of my decisions are primarily stats-based.
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Originally Posted by Markus Heinsohn View Post
Well, the average OOTP user...downloads the game, manages his favorite team and that's it.
According to OOTP itself, OOTP MLB play (modern and historical) outnumbers OOTP fictional play three to one.

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Old 12-01-2014, 10:18 AM   #23
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Nice.
Thank the PM's I got that guilted me into it.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Markus Heinsohn View Post
Well, the average OOTP user...downloads the game, manages his favorite team and that's it.
According to OOTP itself, OOTP MLB play (modern and historical) outnumbers OOTP fictional play three to one.

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Old 12-01-2014, 10:41 AM   #24
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One of the things that causes me to avoid stats-only play is the fact that the OOTP in-game player displays don't show anything in place of ratings. There's just a gap where player ratings used to be, which looks aesthetically very strange to me. I would love it if, for example, the game showed a player's career fielding stat when he is in the field, in the place where his Defense or Arm ratings used to be.

I know there are other issues in OOTP that are far more important for Markus to work on. But I personally would welcome some aesthetic improvements to the stats-only experience.
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Old 12-01-2014, 11:02 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smiller View Post
Wolf: I've been playing this way for a number of months and totally agree that it makes for a much better playing experience. Some questions: How much do you really rely on your scouts if they're just average or low? Are your player decisions almost totally stats-based?

What I have never understood about this style of play is this: if you are using scouts anyway, the scouted ratings 2-8 or 20-80 are just simply a reflection of the report....that's all really...they may be right, they may be wrong....the same way you are playing...I still need to rely on stats to evaluAte players. Scouting is theory, whereas stats are fact...that's all
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Old 12-01-2014, 11:18 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Antonin View Post
One of the things that causes me to avoid stats-only play is the fact that the OOTP in-game player displays don't show anything in place of ratings. There's just a gap where player ratings used to be, which looks aesthetically very strange to me. I would love it if, for example, the game showed a player's career fielding stat when he is in the field, in the place where his Defense or Arm ratings used to be.

I know there are other issues in OOTP that are far more important for Markus to work on. But I personally would welcome some aesthetic improvements to the stats-only experience.
I completely agree, but I don't think that Markus will ever do it for us.

But I think that he should, because this is a totally awesome way to play the game.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Markus Heinsohn View Post
Well, the average OOTP user...downloads the game, manages his favorite team and that's it.
According to OOTP itself, OOTP MLB play (modern and historical) outnumbers OOTP fictional play three to one.

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Old 12-01-2014, 11:21 AM   #27
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With the introduction of widgets, it could be possible.
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Old 12-01-2014, 01:32 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Antonin View Post
One of the things that causes me to avoid stats-only play is the fact that the OOTP in-game player displays don't show anything in place of ratings. There's just a gap where player ratings used to be, which looks aesthetically very strange to me. I would love it if, for example, the game showed a player's career fielding stat when he is in the field, in the place where his Defense or Arm ratings used to be.

I know there are other issues in OOTP that are far more important for Markus to work on. But I personally would welcome some aesthetic improvements to the stats-only experience.
Yes! That's one of the things that bothers me, too. Why is that? Are we that OCD?

But a great suggestion by you, thanks.
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Old 12-01-2014, 01:33 PM   #29
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Wolf, how do you treat the MiLB stats that just seem waaaaaay off? I mean, guys with monster ratings in MLB get sent down and just.... die. Do you use their MLB stats (if they have any) or just guess and close your eyes when clicking "Agree"?
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Old 12-01-2014, 03:54 PM   #30
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Wolf, how do you treat the MiLB stats that just seem waaaaaay off? I mean, guys with monster ratings in MLB get sent down and just.... die. Do you use their MLB stats (if they have any) or just guess and close your eyes when clicking "Agree"?
Stats are what actually happens, so that's how I treat them. Maybe you should try a fictional league.

Giving up on expectations makes for a happier OOTP.
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Originally Posted by Markus Heinsohn View Post
Well, the average OOTP user...downloads the game, manages his favorite team and that's it.
According to OOTP itself, OOTP MLB play (modern and historical) outnumbers OOTP fictional play three to one.

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Old 12-02-2014, 05:38 PM   #31
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Good point.

What do you do for ratings of staff? Scouts don't have a W/L record or a list of "picks that overachieved/underachieved" so do you just pick them at random/cheapest? Although managers have a W/L that you could use, assistants don't.
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Old 12-03-2014, 11:57 AM   #32
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I am a HUGE fan of stats only. It's the only way I play now. But one thing though; feeder leauges are a must. The game generates stats for computer created draftees on a pretty random basis. I used feeder leagues to create all my draft pool then spend a lot of time scouting those leagues. The biggest part of my GM duties is spending from April -June scouting and preparing for the draft. With feeder leagues I have between 3-6 seasons of stats on all the pool players and can make informed draft decisions.
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Old 12-03-2014, 03:45 PM   #33
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Good point.

What do you do for ratings of staff? Scouts don't have a W/L record or a list of "picks that overachieved/underachieved" so do you just pick them at random/cheapest? Although managers have a W/L that you could use, assistants don't.
I turn coaching off. Other people do different things.
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Originally Posted by Markus Heinsohn View Post
Well, the average OOTP user...downloads the game, manages his favorite team and that's it.
According to OOTP itself, OOTP MLB play (modern and historical) outnumbers OOTP fictional play three to one.

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Old 12-03-2014, 11:46 PM   #34
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If scouts are on but ratings and potential are off...do you just get the textual scouting reports, then? There is no history of those so you can see how a scout's opinion of a player evolved over time, correct?

Would you recommend starting with a fictional MLB setup or smaller fictional setup?
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Old 12-04-2014, 12:37 AM   #35
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I recommend fictional. My setup is 24 teams (two leagues of two divisions of six teams each), full minors and HS and college feeder leagues. No foreign or indie leagues. The draft has only players from the feeder leagues.
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Originally Posted by Markus Heinsohn View Post
Well, the average OOTP user...downloads the game, manages his favorite team and that's it.
According to OOTP itself, OOTP MLB play (modern and historical) outnumbers OOTP fictional play three to one.

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Old 12-04-2014, 12:40 AM   #36
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I just realized that I didn't explain the reason for going fictional. A fictional league results in no expectations - as in no ideas about how players ought to perform - and no prior information. You have to watch it play out and figure it all out for yourself.
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Originally Posted by Markus Heinsohn View Post
Well, the average OOTP user...downloads the game, manages his favorite team and that's it.
According to OOTP itself, OOTP MLB play (modern and historical) outnumbers OOTP fictional play three to one.

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Old 12-04-2014, 09:35 AM   #37
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I have the same fictional setup as Wolf, although I only added feeder leagues after my first season (I'm now in my fourth year, although I simmed 15 seasons before beginning to establish a history). By only relying on stats, you are much more involved in the decision-making process, because results are what matters, not expectations due to ratings. For instance, my top pitcher is having a terrible year. Although still young, I have to start thinking that he may be declining and now would be a good time to trade him. If I checked his ratings, I have no doubt they would still be high (my scout still praises him), but I can only go by his current numbers and whether my gut instinct tells me to give him more time. That's why Wolf says you really feel like a general manager with just stats.
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Old 12-04-2014, 11:32 AM   #38
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I have the same fictional setup as Wolf, although I only added feeder leagues after my first season (I'm now in my fourth year, although I simmed 15 seasons before beginning to establish a history). By only relying on stats, you are much more involved in the decision-making process, because results are what matters, not expectations due to ratings. For instance, my top pitcher is having a terrible year. Although still young, I have to start thinking that he may be declining and now would be a good time to trade him. If I checked his ratings, I have no doubt they would still be high (my scout still praises him), but I can only go by his current numbers and whether my gut instinct tells me to give him more time. That's why Wolf says you really feel like a general manager with just stats.
Right! Exactly! You have to think and make decisions like a real GM.
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Originally Posted by Markus Heinsohn View Post
Well, the average OOTP user...downloads the game, manages his favorite team and that's it.
According to OOTP itself, OOTP MLB play (modern and historical) outnumbers OOTP fictional play three to one.

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Old 12-04-2014, 12:10 PM   #39
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Personally I enjoy having some ratings showing (potential on 2-8 scale and stars). I feel like I am like a GM who has scouts at least give a ballpark of how good a player could be. I hide current ratings - but it would likely be nice to hide the current stars as well. It's not quite stats-only, and I do admire those who have patience to play that mode, but I like having some stuff pre-calculated for me.
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Old 12-04-2014, 12:11 PM   #40
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Wolf, awesome write up for the league but do you use all the levels of minors like the short league and whatever it just the triple, double and single A ones?
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