Home | Webstore
Latest News: OOTP Update 20.5.52 - OOTP 20 Available - FHM 5 Available

MLB All-Star Game Special: Save 50% on OOTP 20!

  

Go Back   OOTP Developments Forums > Out of the Park Baseball 20 > OOTP 20 - General Discussions

OOTP 20 - General Discussions Everything about the newest version of Out of the Park Baseball - officially licensed by MLB.com and the MLBPA.

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 05-01-2019, 11:53 AM   #1
JD396
Bat Boy
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: MSP
Posts: 18
Thanks: 0
Thanked 15x in 5 posts
Ghost Minor Leaguers & Fatigue

So, I've been playing through a historical game - started in 1946. I've played all of the games by hand all the way through 1950 so far (started in OOTP18). I've been playing with ghost minor leaguers rather than the fictional players. While I have a nice load of minor leaguers down there, I have almost no position players on the bench.

The issue I'm having, that I don't recall having in the past, is fatigue for the real players. They just play and play and play to the point of exhaustion and the AI managers never, ever give them a day off. Ever.

The only solution I've found is to take over managing the lineups and pitching staffs myself and making sure there's a bench player scheduled to play once in a while in the depth chart. I don't want to do that (partly because there's just not that many minor leaguers in a historical game like this), I just want the AI manager to deal with the guys I send down. I don't recall having this issue before. Has something changed with the AI at all?
__________________
Discord: jd_396#7779

Last edited by JD396; 05-01-2019 at 11:56 AM.
JD396 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-02-2019, 01:46 PM   #2
NoOne
Hall Of Famer
 
NoOne's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 6,564
Thanks: 693
Thanked 1,787x in 1,443 posts
i think that's a result of a lack of players. even with ghost players, it's going to favor the real players until the point of exhaustion i think. i.e. fewer days off than normal? if that's the behaviour you are seeing, that'd be a great suggestion for future versions -- when ghost players are enabled, honor days off, then fill with ghosts as needed... make the ghost players after an incomplete depth chart is filled out prior to game start. when ghost players are enabled it'll know to just honor the days off without concern of an incomplete lineup etc.

there is an option that will prevent fictional players from being promoted to your ML-level... if that's your main concern, you could use the 'fill' function for the MiL leagues occasionally and still keep them out of your real player's path to MLB.

Last edited by NoOne; 05-02-2019 at 01:48 PM.
NoOne is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-03-2019, 08:56 PM   #3
Déjà Bru
Hall Of Famer
 
Déjà Bru's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 6,945
Blog Entries: 4
Thanks: 1,458
Thanked 3,738x in 2,121 posts
I have noticed this problem as well. I never saw it before XX, that is for sure, but I don't know if it's one of the patches or from the beginning of XX.

My Triple-A ballclub had a day off on the 11th and everybody was rested up:

Name:  mlb_history_1903-06-12_17-10-30.jpg
Views: 188
Size:  288.4 KB
Name:  mlb_history_1903-06-12_17-11-03.jpg
Views: 189
Size:  309.1 KB

But by the 23rd, forget about it!

Name:  mlb_history_1903-06-23_20-43-57.jpg
Views: 187
Size:  319.3 KB
__________________

- Bru


Déjà Bru is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-03-2019, 09:04 PM   #4
Déjà Bru
Hall Of Famer
 
Déjà Bru's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 6,945
Blog Entries: 4
Thanks: 1,458
Thanked 3,738x in 2,121 posts
It turns out that position players on a team with ghost players will be rested but only when they have reached the point of utter exhaustion.

These are the four position players on the 23rd:

Name:  mlb_history_1903-06-23_20-44-02.jpg
Views: 185
Size:  444.0 KB
Name:  mlb_history_1903-06-23_20-44-10.jpg
Views: 186
Size:  461.8 KB
Name:  mlb_history_1903-06-23_20-44-15.jpg
Views: 185
Size:  471.4 KB
Name:  mlb_history_1903-06-23_20-44-23.jpg
Views: 183
Size:  472.7 KB

Hibbard and Macias are down to 17% and 29% respectively. Finally, on the 24th, they get some rest:

Name:  mlb_history_1903-06-24_20-45-06.jpg
Views: 184
Size:  318.7 KB

It's not realistic to be running players down like this over the course of a long season. If ghost players are to be allowed, simulating a full team, then regular days off for rest need to be simulated as well.

Bear in mind that this is 1903. Stamina is significantly higher and fatigue is lower than present day. I can just imagine how bad this is in a modern league.

One answer, of course, is to stock up with more players and I will be doing that now. However, this ghost player feature seems to need adjustment to simulate player rest as needed. Not that the "real" players don't get fatigued, but that when they do, they are benched for a day in favor of ghost replacements.
__________________

- Bru


Déjà Bru is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-05-2019, 04:26 PM   #5
panda234
Minors (Double A)
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Posts: 187
Thanks: 27
Thanked 18x in 13 posts
I use ghost players. Could this be hurting the prospects of my prospects?
panda234 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-05-2019, 06:48 PM   #6
Spritze
OOTP Historical Czar
 
Spritze's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Redmond Wa and Cape Coast Ghana
Posts: 7,175
Thanks: 310
Thanked 3,228x in 1,897 posts
ghost players are meant to be benchers and fill-ins, not very good at all. they will only appear as a last resort.

the first resort are real players. if you don't have enough real dudes they can get tired so one of your challenges is to stay stocked.
__________________
It's madness, madness, I tell you! For the love of God, don't do it!
Spritze is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-06-2019, 09:16 AM   #7
Déjà Bru
Hall Of Famer
 
Déjà Bru's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 6,945
Blog Entries: 4
Thanks: 1,458
Thanked 3,738x in 2,121 posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by panda234 View Post
I use ghost players. Could this be hurting the prospects of my prospects?
I would imagine so, yes. That is my concern.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spritze View Post
ghost players are meant to be benchers and fill-ins, not very good at all. they will only appear as a last resort.

the first resort are real players. if you don't have enough real dudes they can get tired so one of your challenges is to stay stocked.
When you say "stay stocked," that is true, of course, but it's not consistent with the idea and purpose of ghost players. Up until now, you could have a skeleton crew of actual prospects without necessarily stocking the team with scrubs in order to prevent your prospects from being chronically fatigued.
__________________

- Bru


Déjà Bru is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-06-2019, 10:12 AM   #8
Bluenoser
Hall Of Famer
 
Bluenoser's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Dartmouth, NS
Posts: 11,431
Thanks: 1,178
Thanked 3,565x in 2,151 posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Déjà Bru View Post
I would imagine so, yes. That is my concern.


When you say "stay stocked," that is true, of course, but it's not consistent with the idea and purpose of ghost players. Up until now, you could have a skeleton crew of actual prospects without necessarily stocking the team with scrubs in order to prevent your prospects from being chronically fatigued.
Not true - the only purpose ghost players ever served was to ensure your team could field a starting lineup. It was never meant to be used as a tool for handling things like real player fatigue, etc.

If you're players weren't getting fatigued in the past, it isn't because of ghost players.
__________________
"I don't think a manager should be judged by whether he wins the pennant, but by whether he gets the most out of the twenty-five men he's been given." Chuck Tanner
Bluenoser is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-06-2019, 10:35 AM   #9
Spritze
OOTP Historical Czar
 
Spritze's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Redmond Wa and Cape Coast Ghana
Posts: 7,175
Thanks: 310
Thanked 3,228x in 1,897 posts
ghosts + real players is not = to fatigue

not enough real players = fatigue

if you have a plethora of players on your rosters fatigue will not be an issue. They can be fictional or real. Your choice.

If you like ghosts watch Scooby-Doo?
__________________
It's madness, madness, I tell you! For the love of God, don't do it!
Spritze is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-06-2019, 04:17 PM   #10
Déjà Bru
Hall Of Famer
 
Déjà Bru's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 6,945
Blog Entries: 4
Thanks: 1,458
Thanked 3,738x in 2,121 posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluenoser View Post
Not true - the only purpose ghost players ever served was to ensure your team could field a starting lineup. It was never meant to be used as a tool for handling things like real player fatigue, etc.

If you're players weren't getting fatigued in the past, it isn't because of ghost players.
I don't agree. I never had to manually rest my minor league players in the past.
__________________

- Bru


Déjà Bru is offline   Reply With Quote
Thank you for this post:
Mike D (06-28-2019)
Old 05-06-2019, 04:32 PM   #11
Bluenoser
Hall Of Famer
 
Bluenoser's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Dartmouth, NS
Posts: 11,431
Thanks: 1,178
Thanked 3,565x in 2,151 posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Déjà Bru View Post
I don't agree. I never had to manually rest my minor league players in the past.

I'm not saying you didn't have to rest them in the past, just telling you it isn't because of ghost players. They were never designed to be used as a fill in for fatigue, only for making sure teams had complete lineups to play games.
__________________
"I don't think a manager should be judged by whether he wins the pennant, but by whether he gets the most out of the twenty-five men he's been given." Chuck Tanner

Last edited by Bluenoser; 05-06-2019 at 04:36 PM.
Bluenoser is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-06-2019, 06:05 PM   #12
Déjà Bru
Hall Of Famer
 
Déjà Bru's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 6,945
Blog Entries: 4
Thanks: 1,458
Thanked 3,738x in 2,121 posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluenoser View Post
I'm not saying you didn't have to rest them in the past, just telling you it isn't because of ghost players. They were never designed to be used as a fill in for fatigue, only for making sure teams had complete lineups to play games.
Well, okay then. The thing is, I do have to rest them manually now and whether regular rest is supposed to be part of the ghost players module and was in the past is the question. Perhaps Luke or Matt will comment and clarify this.
__________________

- Bru


Déjà Bru is offline   Reply With Quote
Thank you for this post:
fredbeene (05-07-2019)
Old 05-06-2019, 07:10 PM   #13
Spritze
OOTP Historical Czar
 
Spritze's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Redmond Wa and Cape Coast Ghana
Posts: 7,175
Thanks: 310
Thanked 3,228x in 1,897 posts
ghost players are only meant for emergencies to generate enough players to get to 9.
so the game can advance

the AI will sign enough free agents automagically to solve this issue if they are available in the game you are playing.
__________________
It's madness, madness, I tell you! For the love of God, don't do it!
Spritze is offline   Reply With Quote
Thank you for this post:
Déjà Bru (05-06-2019)
Old 05-06-2019, 07:56 PM   #14
Bluenoser
Hall Of Famer
 
Bluenoser's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Dartmouth, NS
Posts: 11,431
Thanks: 1,178
Thanked 3,565x in 2,151 posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Déjà Bru View Post
Well, okay then. The thing is, I do have to rest them manually now and whether regular rest is supposed to be part of the ghost players module and was in the past is the question. Perhaps Luke or Matt will comment and clarify this.
The way it has always worked, to my knowledge and experience, is as follows:

If you have a 1B on your team, he will start. He will never be rested by the AI and a ghost player started in his place just for the purpose of resting the regular 1B.

If you do not have a 1B on your team, a ghost player will start.

(Applies to any position, just used 1B for the example)

Ghost players exist for the purpose of a team being able to fill out a complete line up. Nothing else.
__________________
"I don't think a manager should be judged by whether he wins the pennant, but by whether he gets the most out of the twenty-five men he's been given." Chuck Tanner
Bluenoser is offline   Reply With Quote
Thank you for this post:
Déjà Bru (05-06-2019)
Old 05-06-2019, 11:11 PM   #15
Déjà Bru
Hall Of Famer
 
Déjà Bru's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 6,945
Blog Entries: 4
Thanks: 1,458
Thanked 3,738x in 2,121 posts
Hmmm. Maybe you are right, BN (and Spritze).

Maybe I wasn't paying as close attention as I am now; I recently and finally adopted the practice of playing out every game, slowing everything down to a day-to-day pace. Maybe I never noticed the fatigue factor before . . .

It still stands to reason that the ghost player module should include ghost position backups but I am granting your point that this may not in fact have ever been the case . . .

Thanks.
__________________

- Bru



Last edited by Déjà Bru; 05-06-2019 at 11:20 PM.
Déjà Bru is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-06-2019, 11:20 PM   #16
Matt Arnold
OOTP Developer
 
Matt Arnold's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Toronto
Posts: 8,500
Thanks: 975
Thanked 10,528x in 4,140 posts
We'll add something in so that with ghost players enabled, we will make ghosts to backup if guys are exhausted. Looks like the recent change I made to not fill almost-full minors (which was causing ghost players to be used too much) had a side effect that if a team had literally only 8 or 9 batters that they would never sit.
__________________
Matt Arnold is offline   Reply With Quote
5 thanks for this post:
Andy (05-07-2019), BirdWatcher (05-07-2019), Déjà Bru (05-06-2019), Mat (05-07-2019), Sweed (05-06-2019)
Old 05-06-2019, 11:23 PM   #17
Déjà Bru
Hall Of Famer
 
Déjà Bru's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 6,945
Blog Entries: 4
Thanks: 1,458
Thanked 3,738x in 2,121 posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt Arnold View Post
We'll add something in so that with ghost players enabled, we will make ghosts to backup if guys are exhausted. Looks like the recent change I made to not fill almost-full minors (which was causing ghost players to be used too much) had a side effect that if a team had literally only 8 or 9 batters that they would never sit.
Thanks, Matt. So there was something recently different about this.
__________________

- Bru


Déjà Bru is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-27-2019, 01:39 AM   #18
Summers76
Bat Boy
 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Posts: 18
Thanks: 1
Thanked 3x in 3 posts
Where do you 'Enable Ghost Players" in Minor League Settings? Looked everywhere, I can't proceed with my simulation (which is a bunch of crap) -- Never had that problem with 18' or 19'

Found it briefly in Global Settings in one of the Minor Leagues, and then once I clicked it, I can't find that option anymore, there or anywhere. I am just trying to sim to a certain point in my MLB level, it seems to get caught up on league All-Star Games.

Last edited by Summers76; 06-27-2019 at 02:17 AM.
Summers76 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-27-2019, 10:48 AM   #19
Déjà Bru
Hall Of Famer
 
Déjà Bru's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 6,945
Blog Entries: 4
Thanks: 1,458
Thanked 3,738x in 2,121 posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Summers76 View Post
Where do you 'Enable Ghost Players" in Minor League Settings? Looked everywhere, I can't proceed with my simulation (which is a bunch of crap) -- Never had that problem with 18' or 19'

Found it briefly in Global Settings in one of the Minor Leagues, and then once I clicked it, I can't find that option anymore, there or anywhere. I am just trying to sim to a certain point in my MLB level, it seems to get caught up on league All-Star Games.
It's down here, on League Settings, Rules. Note: This is set at the Major League level and it filters down to affiliated minor leagues, so don't look for it in the minor league settings.
Attached Images
Image 
__________________

- Bru


Déjà Bru is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 11:12 PM.

 

Major League Baseball trademarks and copyrights are used with permission of MLB Advanced Media, L.P. Minor League Baseball trademarks and copyrights are used with the permission of Minor League Baseball. All rights reserved.

The Major League Baseball Players Association (www.MLBPLAYERS.com ) is the collective bargaining representative for all professional baseball players of the thirty Major League Baseball teams and serves as the exclusive group licensing agent for commercial and licensing activities involving active Major League baseball players. On behalf of its members, it operates the Players Choice licensing program and the Players Choice Awards, which benefit the needy through the Major League Baseball Players Trust, a charitable foundation established and run entirely by Major League baseball players. Follow: @MLB_Players; @MLBPAClubhouse; @MLBPlayersTrust

Out of the Park Baseball is a registered trademark of Out of the Park Developments GmbH & Co. KG

Google Play is a trademark of Google Inc.

Apple, iPhone, iPod touch and iPad are trademarks of Apple Inc., registered in the U.S. and other countries.

COPYRIGHT © 2017 OUT OF THE PARK DEVELOPMENTS. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED.

 

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.10
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Copyright © 2018 Out of the Park Developments