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Old 05-15-2011, 10:32 PM   #1
cephasjames
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1870-2010 Decade by decade ethinicities.txt

I have created an ethnicities.txt for each decade from 1870 to 2010 that more or less accuracetly represents the real ethnicities that existed during those times in the US. The information is based off of census data found for each of the decades.

Up until 1980 there were basically only three catagories for ethnicity: white, black and other. Hispanics and Asians were considered White until the 1980 census. Therefore, since OOTP looks for numbers for hispanics, asians and east-indians, I had to fiddle around with the numbers some. I'm sure they are not 100% accurate, but there really isn't much info out there to make them 100% accurate.

The point of making this is for anyone who wishes to have "accurate" data that can be updated in game every decade. Below is the link where you can download it.

EDIT: I made the changes for both modern and historical US the same.

1870-2010 ethnicities.rar

A quick glance at the ethinicity percentages for each decade:

year - black asian other white hispanic
1870 - 12.6 0.6 0.2 84.4 2.2
1880 - 13.2 0.7 0.2 83.4 2.4
1890 - 11.9 0.6 0.9 84.4 2.5
1900 - 11.6 0.7 0.4 84.5 2.8
1910 - 10.7 0.8 0.5 85.0 3.0
1920 - 9.9 0.8 0.5 84.9 3.9
1930 - 9.7 0.5 0.3 85.5 4.0
1940 - 9.8 0.6 0.2 84.8 4.6
1950 - 9.9 0.8 0.8 83.0 5.5
1960 - 10.5 1.0 0.9 82.6 5.0
1970 - 9.9 0.9 0.6 83.1 5.5
1980 - 11.8 1.6 0.6 79.6 6.4
1990 - 12.3 3.0 0.8 74.9 9.0
2000 - 12.8 4.1 0.9 70.4 11.8
2010 - 11.6 4.5 0.9 70.3 12.7

Last edited by cephasjames; 05-15-2011 at 10:37 PM.
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Old 05-16-2011, 12:00 AM   #2
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Cephas, thanks for your time and effort- I look forward to using this.

For the early teens and twenties, I expect you (or someone, not suggesting more work for you) could look at historical sources on immigration (hearings about or coverage of the various restriction acts).

Those at least have estimates of different populations, I've certainly seen numbers for Asian immigrants discussed as regards limits on them during those years.
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Old 05-16-2011, 07:30 AM   #3
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I should add that, though these numbers are based off of real US population, the ethnicity breakdown within professional baseball has not always matched up with the actual ethnicity breakdown of the US population.
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Old 05-16-2011, 09:46 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GMLoophole View Post
Cephas, thanks for your time and effort- I look forward to using this.

For the early teens and twenties, I expect you (or someone, not suggesting more work for you) could look at historical sources on immigration (hearings about or coverage of the various restriction acts).

Those at least have estimates of different populations, I've certainly seen numbers for Asian immigrants discussed as regards limits on them during those years.
I totally agree that it would be great to have more accurate info on this. I was pretty frustrated by how little info there actually was.
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Old 06-22-2011, 03:55 AM   #5
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The ethnicity of the population and the ethnicity of ballplayers have very little in common with one another as far as the percentages taken up by the various groups.......
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Old 06-27-2011, 06:55 PM   #6
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ReImport Names and Ethnicities maybe not working?

I was playing with the Ethnicities file over the weekend trying to tweak my early 20th century fictional league. But I could not get the changes I was making to the file to be reflected when I filled the league with fictional players. I would exit and restrt. I would run the ReImport Name and Ethnicities function. Nothing changed.

Then I started a new league and found the changes I had made to the file showed up in the new league.

So what it appears is that the Ethnicities file is loaded into the World environment of the League when the League is created. You can adjust the
various "Languages" in the interface Explore World/Edit Nation. However it looks like you cannot adjust the Ethnicities file for a created League as ReImport does not appear to work. So you cannot implement gradual changes to your League over time through the Ethnicities file.

If someone else is playing with this could you confirm?

Maybe a workaround is to create a number of US (Historical) "nations" with different distributions and then select them from the Edit Nations page. But you would still need to do this before creating your League.

Of course I may be missing something obvious in my testing.


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Old 06-29-2011, 07:53 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mhjohann View Post
ReImport Names and Ethnicities maybe not working?

I was playing with the Ethnicities file over the weekend trying to tweak my early 20th century fictional league. But I could not get the changes I was making to the file to be reflected when I filled the league with fictional players. I would exit and restrt. I would run the ReImport Name and Ethnicities function. Nothing changed.

Then I started a new league and found the changes I had made to the file showed up in the new league.

So what it appears is that the Ethnicities file is loaded into the World environment of the League when the League is created. You can adjust the
various "Languages" in the interface Explore World/Edit Nation. However it looks like you cannot adjust the Ethnicities file for a created League as ReImport does not appear to work. So you cannot implement gradual changes to your League over time through the Ethnicities file.

If someone else is playing with this could you confirm?

Maybe a workaround is to create a number of US (Historical) "nations" with different distributions and then select them from the Edit Nations page. But you would still need to do this before creating your League.

Of course I may be missing something obvious in my testing.


Michael
In past versions of OOTP, ethnicities.txt WAS imported when you did a re-import. I haven't had a chance to test it yet on the new version. I know any info in the world_default.xml file is only loaded at game creation and is NOT ever re-imported.
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Old 06-29-2011, 09:14 PM   #8
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I believe what's causing the confusion is there are 2 etnnicities files now.

The first ethnicities is imbedded in the world default.xml. This is the langauges ethnicities. You can edit this in the nation editor.

The second ethnicities is the etnicities.tst. This is the skin-color ethnicities. You cannot edit this in the game, but you can re-import this file.

Unfortunately, I don't know of any way to adjust the ethnicities other than re-iporting them.

Update, I am able to confirm that the re-import isn't working. I changed the ethnicities to be 100% african and nothing changed. Players were primarily caucasion. Maybe inbedding ethnicities in the word default.xml broke the re-import function?
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Last edited by Markmeister; 06-29-2011 at 09:30 PM.
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Old 07-04-2011, 03:09 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Markmeister View Post
Update, I am able to confirm that the re-import isn't working. I changed the ethnicities to be 100% african and nothing changed. Players were primarily caucasion. Maybe inbedding ethnicities in the word default.xml broke the re-import function?
As far as I can tell, the ethnicities file is absolutely superfluous now. All the settings are in the world_default .xml file, and you can't make any changes in that file.
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Old 07-04-2011, 07:47 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joefromchicago View Post
As far as I can tell, the ethnicities file is absolutely superfluous now. All the settings are in the world_default .xml file, and you can't make any changes in that file.
I don't actully own OOTP12, though I have downloaded it to take a look at what's in it. I have looked at the world_default.xml file and nowhere does it mention ethnicities. But there still is an ethnicities.txt that does deal with ethnicities. So I can't imagine that changing ethnicities.txt would not do anything.
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Old 07-04-2011, 07:51 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Markmeister View Post
I believe what's causing the confusion is there are 2 etnnicities files now.

The first ethnicities is imbedded in the world default.xml. This is the langauges ethnicities. You can edit this in the nation editor.

The second ethnicities is the etnicities.tst. This is the skin-color ethnicities. You cannot edit this in the game, but you can re-import this file.

Unfortunately, I don't know of any way to adjust the ethnicities other than re-iporting them.

Update, I am able to confirm that the re-import isn't working. I changed the ethnicities to be 100% african and nothing changed. Players were primarily caucasion. Maybe inbedding ethnicities in the word default.xml broke the re-import function?
Language ID and ethnicity have always been two different things. Because, for instance, in the US there are a lot of people of African (ethnicity) descent with US - modern (Language ID) names. Just because someone has and African ethnicity does not mean they have have an African Langauge name.

I think there should be some confirmation of this from Markus, though.

Last edited by cephasjames; 07-04-2011 at 07:53 AM.
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Old 07-04-2011, 10:42 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cephasjames View Post
I don't actully own OOTP12, though I have downloaded it to take a look at what's in it. I have looked at the world_default.xml file and nowhere does it mention ethnicities. But there still is an ethnicities.txt that does deal with ethnicities. So I can't imagine that changing ethnicities.txt would not do anything.
Well, let me back up: I don't know if ethnicities are handled in the .xml file. You're right, the lid in the world_default file isn't the same thing as ethnicity, and the ETHNICITIES values in the world_default file are actually just language id values. But making changes in the ethnicities file appears to have no effect -- I suspect it's because the ethnic breakdowns are hardcoded somewhere, just not in the .xml file.
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Old 07-09-2011, 10:16 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joefromchicago View Post
Well, let me back up: I don't know if ethnicities are handled in the .xml file. You're right, the lid in the world_default file isn't the same thing as ethnicity, and the ETHNICITIES values in the world_default file are actually just language id values. But making changes in the ethnicities file appears to have no effect -- I suspect it's because the ethnic breakdowns are hardcoded somewhere, just not in the .xml file.
Editing the file will work, you just have to re-import it into a game or create a new game with the file in place.
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Old 07-23-2011, 01:42 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Questdog View Post
The ethnicity of the population and the ethnicity of ballplayers have very little in common with one another as far as the percentages taken up by the various groups.......
I have used baseball Almanac to create a spreadsheet of player origins. They have a break down of players by US and foreign players by country. I have a spreadsheet for the 19th century but that is as far as I gotten as of now.
Baseball foreign %.pdf

Baseball foreign %2.pdf

Baseball foreign %3.pdf

Baseball almanac also breaks down US by state they born in. I have not calculated that data though. This will show the percentage of country origin for baseball players in the 19th century though. Note the country percentages are percent of foreign players not all players multiply foreign percent by the country percent to get the percent of all players for that country. Also this does not address ethnicity of the players only where they born. So there is denotation here of say Native Americans and Hispanics which were not barred like black players were.

Last edited by Biggio509; 07-23-2011 at 01:46 PM.
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Old 07-30-2011, 06:40 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Questdog View Post
Editing the file will work, you just have to re-import it into a game or create a new game with the file in place.
so if I understand correctly

1 edit the file
2 import to a ongoing game or create a new game
3 edits should be good

this correct?
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