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Old 12-02-2017, 07:05 AM   #1
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Historical Mode: '75 Draft

So I am playing my first FHM4 game. I started in '73. Now I'm at the '75 draft and it is empty for all intents and purposes. There is nothing but scrubs there. I recall this issue from previous versions. Is this a bug? Does it have something to do with the NHL changing entry age?

Whatever it is, this is frustrating. What's worse is that I suspected this was coming in '74 when I saw how stocked that draft was. Whatever the issue, this is the one thing that remains that I still find is a problem when I play. As it is I love FHM4, and the faux minors in HM is really a nice touch. I just want to be able to count on there being a draft every year. When you're running the KC Scouts that's just about your only chance for success.

One other note: I noticed that Mel Bridgman was drafted by one team but signed by a different team a year later. How did the original team lose his rights? I don't think I missed a trade, but he was also never signed by the team that originally drafted him.
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Old 12-02-2017, 10:39 AM   #2
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Yes, it's the draft age change that's the problem. The NHL allowed 18-year-olds to be drafted in the first two rounds of the 1974 draft, which stripped out the best prospects who'd normally have been picked in 1975. It's worse in the game because we can't have two separate age limits in one draft, so the 75 class gets almost completely cleaned out of its best players in 74 (I've added extra players and changed some settings so it's relatively full, if not particularly talented.)

Bridgman may be related to a problem we've noticed with teams signing and releasing certain draft picks; we think we may have it fixed, I'm hoping for a new test build later in the day to test it.
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Old 12-02-2017, 09:00 PM   #3
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So I did some checking and you were absolutely right about the Mel Bridgman issue. I found a slew of players signed and released. Rick Hampton, Ralph Klassen, etc. That's a game killer for me.

As for the '75 draft, thanks for the feedback. I acknowledge that you're in a no win situation. Some people will want the age change simulated while others, like myself, would tell you not to bother with trying to simulate that change in the mid-70s since it messes up the game. No matter what you do some players will appear in the wrong year. Who cares? This game is meant to change history, so a change of a year or so doesn't bother me. A draft class with less talent than I can muster from my circle of street hockey friends, OTOH, is really bad.

If my opinion matters I would go back to the FHM2 fix. Scrap trying to simulate the change in draft eligible age. Instead just keep trucking with one age and let the chips (players) fall where they may. Then advertise this as the spice of the game wherein players appear in different years than they did IRL. That's my $.02. Whatever you do, I appreciate the work on a fun game.
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Old 12-03-2017, 02:10 AM   #4
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I had a couple of other ideas that may work before I resort to that. Setting a limit on the number of players of a certain age (i.e. 18) that can be picked by one team in a draft is the best one; that's actually how the 74 draft worked (one 18-year-old per team, had to be taken in rounds 1 or 2). The other would be splitting the 74 draft into two drafts on separate days - first two rounds would be one draft with an 18-year-old age limit, remainder would be in another draft that's 19+. Both are going to require some extra coding work, though, so it's a matter of where to fit them in - we also want to add the Waiver/Intra-League drafts to historical, so that may come first.
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Old 12-04-2017, 07:39 AM   #5
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I've played another season and the '76 draft is denuded of talent as well. I thought the '74 draft was suspiciously deep--I got Peter Stastny at the start of the second round--but now I realize how deep. Essentially it was three years of talent crammed into one draft.

In re: to your suggestions, I like setting a limit on drafting 18 yr olds. That should push some talent back to at least 1975. I am afraid the second suggestion, which would allow teams to select two 18 yr olds, would save very little talent for the following years. However, a suggestion whereby there is a separate 18 yr old draft of just a single round would serve the same purpose. It would make it much easier to track just how much of the 18 year old talent has been sucked out of '75 and '76.*


*- I've now looked ahead to '77 and it appears this is just a two yr phenomenon. So starting in '77 things should right themselves again. Still, two years with almost no draft worth mentioning really takes a lot of fun out of GM mode It also really hurt the worst teams since their juicy picks return almost nothing while the best teams are able to capitalize on some amazing talent in '74. I'm going to take a closer look at hockeyDB to see just how strong the talent shift was in these years.
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Old 12-05-2017, 01:04 PM   #6
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Taking a quick look at HockeyDB, the '74 draft is clearly stronger than '75, which makes sense now that I know the history. However, it isn't as lopsided as one might expect. I'd say an extra 10% worth of talent came out a year early. As it is right now, the game gives about 90% of the '75 talent to '74 (I don't know if I'm phrasing that right, but hopefully what I'm trying to explain comes across).

It seems to me that there is another option, although I don't know if it is easy to code. Allow only a certain number of 18 yr olds--say 18--to come out in '74. It would be a random selection of 18 year old players, so it might be an amazing group, or a bunch of duds, but what it shouldn't be is every good player from '75 and '76. How does this sound Jeff?

I think limiting '74 to eighteen or so random 18 yr olds could be really interesting and add some nice flavor. This way you get the same general issue that occured IRL: some peeps would have come out to play and others would have waited. OTOH, if you let players choose, they'll will strip all the top end talent! This way is just as random as IRL. You can leave the draft as it is and teams will have to choose between getting players who are good but VERY young and won't produce for awhile or older players who will produce much sooner.
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Old 12-05-2017, 11:49 PM   #7
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The way draft eligibility works in the game, it'd be more difficult to randomly specify a group of 18-year-olds for eligibility than it would be to limit the number of them taken.
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Old 12-10-2017, 07:34 PM   #8
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That's disappointing, I thought I had a good idea. Well, whatever the fix, do you happen to know when we might see it? I'm just about to head into the '79-'80 season in my sim and from what I can tell (granted, just running the one sim) having two draft years without usable talent really screws up the mid- and late-'70s of the historic mode.

I've put some thought into this and the problem is that all the extra talent in '74 does more to jazz up the good teams than the weak ones. A #1 pick is going to get something good generally, no matter what, but #15 doesn't always get a truly good player. But in '74 every pick in the first and second round were potential NHL starters save for a couple boneheaded selections by the computer. So in the end the best teams benefit far more than the weaker teams.

Anyway, perhaps this is beating a dead horse, but this is a game killer for me and I love this game. Maybe this will be dealt with in the next patch?

Thanks for listening to my ramblings.
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Old 12-31-2017, 03:10 AM   #9
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I was just looking over the new patch and it seems that the issue I had brought up wasn’t listed (or did I overlook it?). Any chance the drafts in the mid-70s will have a fix soon? Many thanks.
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Old 12-31-2017, 09:28 AM   #10
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Sorry, no changes to it yet. The stuff I'm considering doing would likely require a bit of new coding, so there wasn't time for it in addition to everything else in the last update. Going to see next week if we can fit it in to the next one.
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Old 01-04-2018, 01:39 AM   #11
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Thanks Jeff, the update is much appreciated!
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Old 04-18-2018, 12:33 AM   #12
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Just checking back in. Was the issue I brought up regarding the drafts in the mid-70s ever fixed? I didn't see anything mentioned in the last two updates, but perhaps it was taken care of in another patch that I missed. I don't know where to find the lists for things updated in each patch.
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Old 04-18-2018, 06:39 AM   #13
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Nothing new to report. We're not to the point with FHM5 where we're looking at draft changes yet.
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Old 04-18-2018, 03:15 PM   #14
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I'm sorry to hear that. I've been very supportive Jeff; my post history will show that. I bought the first, second, and fourth versions (and only missed the third version because I was busy during that time). However, this issue has been repetitive and ongoing. Both myself and others have mentioned it many times. In fact, there was even a fix for this awhile back, although i don't recall what was done right now and I don't know why it was abandoned. For me having a draft essentially empty for a year really breaks the game. Because of this I have been sitting on my copy since December waiting for a fix... I don't touch this game and apparently that won't be changing any time soon, nor will I purchase the next version since you're apparently not going to fix this.

Now here's the thing: I've been an extremely enthusiastic customer for four years, I've put my money where my mouth is and I've even publicly defended the developers when people attacked them. However, I'm just not inclined to do this any longer. I think four years is long enough to wait for the same bug to be fixed and I think paying for three versions of a game is supporting the developers long enough to get certain items, such as this one, taken care of. It simply reaches a point where it becomes clear that you are ignoring me and other customers who enjoy the history mode. I get that this was a lower priority. This is why I was perfectly fine waiting, but I am sorry to say that I'm throwing in the proverbial towel.
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Old 04-19-2018, 01:01 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AEWHistory View Post
I'm sorry to hear that. I've been very supportive Jeff; my post history will show that. I bought the first, second, and fourth versions (and only missed the third version because I was busy during that time). However, this issue has been repetitive and ongoing. Both myself and others have mentioned it many times. In fact, there was even a fix for this awhile back, although i don't recall what was done right now and I don't know why it was abandoned. For me having a draft essentially empty for a year really breaks the game. Because of this I have been sitting on my copy since December waiting for a fix... I don't touch this game and apparently that won't be changing any time soon, nor will I purchase the next version since you're apparently not going to fix this.

Now here's the thing: I've been an extremely enthusiastic customer for four years, I've put my money where my mouth is and I've even publicly defended the developers when people attacked them. However, I'm just not inclined to do this any longer. I think four years is long enough to wait for the same bug to be fixed and I think paying for three versions of a game is supporting the developers long enough to get certain items, such as this one, taken care of. It simply reaches a point where it becomes clear that you are ignoring me and other customers who enjoy the history mode. I get that this was a lower priority. This is why I was perfectly fine waiting, but I am sorry to say that I'm throwing in the proverbial towel.
Yup. In their defence, they are extremely clear that historical is not the same priority as modern day. But im in same boat, bought 1,2,4 and cant see anymore until that changes. Hopefully more feel the same and changes are made.
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Old 04-19-2018, 01:04 AM   #16
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Sorry you feel that way, but it's one of many ways in which historical mode doesn't model history perfectly, and when it comes to prioritizing which ones get dealt with first, those that are easy to change and/or have a major impact on gameplay will tend to go first. Unfortunately, the weak draft in 1974 doesn't match either criteria very well - it only affects one draft in one league, and changing it requires re-working the draft code in ways that'll take time away from other things that could be done. Adding waiver/intraleague drafts (whose absence affects the realism of about 50 seasons) may, for example, be a better use of that time. I still want to change it for FHM5, but I don't know if it'll make the final cut for what gets done for the release version.
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Old 04-22-2018, 03:46 PM   #17
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In defense of "quirkiness"

I may perhaps be a minority of one, but one of the things I enjoy most about historical mode is the fact that it doesn't precisely mirror the past. I really appreciate the immense work the FHM team has done on the historical part of the game. I'm an older player who became a fan in the early sixties and I find that the small degree of inexactness sets up circumstances that keep the game fresh through multiple historical saves. I'd say the game is more than 90% spot on, and I find that the 10% fog sets up interest building challenges. I hope I'm not stepping on any toes here, but I say embrace the quirkiness (if that's even a word).
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Old 06-25-2018, 01:52 PM   #18
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I decided to check back in and I wanted to thank everyone for the replies. Stanley makes a good point that I would like to address: quirkiness.

I absolutely LOVE the quirkiness and fog that is introduced by these quirks. If these were removed I would still love the game, but that they are there is no blemish for me. What I dislike, in the extreme, is that there are two drafts that are completely screwed up in the mid-70s. One has two drafts full of talent and the other basically has zero talent. That’s not quirky, at least not to me, that’s a flustercluck.

What frustrates me is that this issue was addressed and fixed before and the fix was undone. I get that the fix will result in some minor historical oddities of players getting introduced a year off. But a few players getting introduced in an off year is surely a better solution than an ENTIRE DRAFT CLASS being in the wrong year, right?

With any luck the change I and others have asked for has been done by now, but I doubt it. But I am eternally hopeful, so I have decided to check back.

PS- Jeff, in spite of my frustrations, I appreciate your thoughtful replies. I understand that this seems like a minor issue since it is only a single year in HM. However, it effectively throws a wrench into HM that undermines the entire endeavor. At this point it is likely too late to fix FHM4, but perhaps the fix that was used for this problem in FHM2 (I think that one) could be resurrected in FHM5?
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