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Old 11-22-2017, 03:32 PM   #1
micpringle
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Question Tactical Advantage

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What do these numbers indicate?

I read it as PIT's offense having a considerable advantage of SJS's defense, and PIT's defense being rated almost equally with SJS's offense. I also see that SJS's PK isn't particularly great.

If I am correct in this, then why is it that SJS were able to score, in just 13 seconds, 2 short-handed goals?

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This isn't just a case of it being a one off, or sour grapes because we ended up losing, as I see this an awful lot—the result and performances not quite aligning with what the Tactical Advantage indicates.

Last edited by micpringle; 11-22-2017 at 03:40 PM.
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Old 11-22-2017, 11:57 PM   #2
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The tactical scores indicate how well the team is able to execute its tactic against that opponent. But even a good score is by no means a guarantee that the team is going to get a good result on a particular night. Breakdowns happen, bad goals happen, just as they do in real life, and sometimes you get Vancouver beating Pittsburgh 5-2 when they had no business doing so.
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Old 11-23-2017, 02:03 AM   #3
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How very current!

Like I say, I appreciate it’s no guarantee of success, but I regularly see games where an opponent with a tactical deficit—such as SJS above—wins, and games where the advantage is minimal-to-non-existent ending up high scoring such as 7-1, 6-2 etc.

I appreciate breakdowns, bad goals, and freak results happen but they tend to be the exception rather than the rule. I’m finding more and more that the TA really doesn’t give you any legitimate indication of how a game will pan out, and therefore I’m questioning whether it’s really worth spending the time pre-game, each game setting the countering roles.

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Old 11-23-2017, 05:08 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by micpringle View Post
How very current!

Like I say, I appreciate it’s no guarantee of success, but I regularly see games where an opponent with a tactical deficit—such as SJS above—wins, and games where the advantage is minimal-to-non-existent ending up high scoring such as 7-1, 6-2 etc.

I appreciate breakdowns, bad goals, and freak results happen but they tend to be the exception rather than the rule. I’m finding more and more that the TA really doesn’t give you any legitimate indication of how a game will pan out, and therefore I’m questioning whether it’s really worth spending the time pre-game, each game setting the countering roles.
Well, teams react also during the game, so you should also try and have a look at it while you play. I think the system can be improved (in particular, in my opinion, I think that the goalie hotness rating ramps up too fast and it has its influence), but I wouldn't call it unrealistic. I'm enjoying it thus far.
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Old 11-23-2017, 05:41 AM   #5
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Well, teams react also during the game, so you should also try and have a look at it while you play.
I do—and whilst the numbers do change, they don't (or at least I've never seen them) change by such dramatic amounts to overturn a significant difference like the one shown in the first screenshot above.
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Old 11-23-2017, 07:29 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by micpringle View Post
I do—and whilst the numbers do change, they don't (or at least I've never seen them) change by such dramatic amounts to overturn a significant difference like the one shown in the first screenshot above.
It's not always going to be possible to overturn it, but you can limit the effect by narrowing the gap. The effects vary by the level of the advantage.
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Old 11-23-2017, 09:26 AM   #7
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Sorry, I may not have been clear.

In the above screenshot I'm PIT, and what I was saying is that although SJS' numbers did change throughout the game, they weren't really significant changes.

I've never seen the AI be able to overturn such a deficit as the one shown in the first screenshot by making in-game tactic tweaks, is probably what I should have said.
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Old 11-24-2017, 12:49 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by micpringle View Post
How very current!

Like I say, I appreciate it’s no guarantee of success, but I regularly see games where an opponent with a tactical deficit—such as SJS above—wins, and games where the advantage is minimal-to-non-existent ending up high scoring such as 7-1, 6-2 etc.

I appreciate breakdowns, bad goals, and freak results happen but they tend to be the exception rather than the rule. I’m finding more and more that the TA really doesn’t give you any legitimate indication of how a game will pan out, and therefore I’m questioning whether it’s really worth spending the time pre-game, each game setting the countering roles.
Perhaps my perspective could help, since this took me some time to get my head around this. I came to realize that tactical advantage was one part of the overall equation to in-game success. I think tactical advantage is often misunderstood. Tactical advantage doesn't translate into on-ice superiority. Just because a team has a tactical advantage doesn't mean they have "COMPLETE" advantage during the game. In fact, I believe there are a number of factors, tactics only being one, that could determine on-ice superiority.

In quoting the FHM4 manual....."A team that holds the tactical advantage is successfully imposing their playing style on the game, and, while play is underway, will have all of their players receive additional attribute bonuses for up to three player attributes"...."The team that doesn't hold the tactical advantage suffers the opposite effect"...."The relative degree of the tactical advantage is considered when deciding how many bonuses or penalties to award. A wide disparity between the two team's tactical effectiveness means three attributes will be affected, a narrower one will only mean one bonus or penalty."

OK, now taking what the manual says from the quotes above, I have come to the conclusion that basically if you have tactical advantage your players are getting attribute bonuses, in one, two, or possibly three categories. So, if I have a passing oriented tactic and hold a slight tactical advantage, then my players would receive a bonus for passing. A player with passing rated as 10 might go to 11. Perhaps the opposing team player goes from 17 down to 14. Yes tactical advantaged helped the one team, but not enough to overcome the raw attribute advantage. Even after the awarded tactical bonuses, the opposing team still wins out by have an attribute rated as 14 compared to my player's attribute at 11.

What you can begin to see is that tactical advantage is helpful and it provides a bonus, but the raw skill ratings will still have a big influence. If I'm playing against a team with great talent - i.e. high skill ratings - even if my team holds the tactical advantage but is generally the weaker team in raw skill, that advantage may not provide enough bonus to overcome their relative lack of skill talent compared to the other team. Adding a few bonus points onto one, two or three ratings will help, but it certainly won't guarantee that my team will play with more talent.

I believe in-fact, that FHM4 has gotten this very right. A poorly skilled team can be helped with great coaching, strategy and tactics, but that may not be enough to overcome their raw talent deficit. Likewise, a team may be poorly coached and not have the tactical advantage but if it's got great talent and raw skill, it still may hold the on-ice advantage. Coaching and tactics can help, but only on the margins....at some point raw talent will win out as well.

I am not certain my perspective is 100% accurate as to how FHM4 works, but this is what I believe based on my reading of the manual. If Jeff or someone from FHM4 could verify or elaborate, that might be helpful.

Last edited by BKL; 11-24-2017 at 12:51 AM.
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Old 11-24-2017, 01:41 AM   #9
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No, that's a very accurate description of the intent and mechanics of the tactics system. The only thing I'd add to the second-to-last paragraph is that there's a third factor in overall team performance besides tactics and skill level: the mental side of the game, where individual tendencies of the players and the effects of the influence of their coaches and captains can also have a big influence on how well the team plays.
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Old 11-24-2017, 05:30 AM   #10
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Thank you BKL—this is the clearest explanation I've seen yet of how Tactical Advantage works. I've re-read it a few times, and will likely do so a few more times just to make sure it sinks in, but it definitely makes a lot of sense.

One thing I would say though is that I now feel Tactical Advantage is given too much focus on the match screen, perhaps implying it's more important than it actually is. The way it's displayed now does imply that the bigger the difference between the scores, the better the team will play, but clearly TA is just a small cog in a much larger machine. It wouldn't surprise me if others who have had issues with this side of the tactics setup think TA has a bigger impact than it does because of the way it's displayed.
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Old 12-03-2017, 02:32 AM   #11
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Quote:
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No, that's a very accurate description of the intent and mechanics of the tactics system. The only thing I'd add to the second-to-last paragraph is that there's a third factor in overall team performance besides tactics and skill level: the mental side of the game, where individual tendencies of the players and the effects of the influence of their coaches and captains can also have a big influence on how well the team plays.
After spending the last hour searching and reading, I'm extremely glad that I found this thread!

I have to agree with micpringle's conclusion here. "Tactical Advantage is given too much focus on the match screen" is absolutely correct.

If I could be so bold as to offer a suggestion: replace the numerical ratings with plusses and minuses to make it more clear that tactics are providing bonuses (and penalties) rather than... scores, I guess. It's confusing as it is, with the 1-5 ratings.
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Old 04-07-2018, 03:37 AM   #12
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Thanks for this thread guys, great talk and advices!
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Old 04-07-2018, 06:38 AM   #13
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I think the momentum -meter should swing more. Like for instance my team tied the game late in the 2nd and got a powerplay right after that, but the opposition still had all the momentum. Feels that the 'stronger' team always has the momentum and it really doesn't shift from there.
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