Home | Webstore
Latest News: OOTP Update 20.5.52 - OOTP 20 Available - FHM 5 Available

MLB All-Star Game Special: Save 50% on OOTP 20!

  

Go Back   OOTP Developments Forums > Out of the Park Baseball 19 > Perfect Team

Perfect Team Discover the new amazing online league competition & card collecting mode of OOTP!

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 01-29-2019, 01:04 PM   #41
Dogberry99
All Star Reserve
 
Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: Wichita Falls, TX
Posts: 769
Thanks: 528
Thanked 344x in 244 posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt Arnold View Post
If you're not abusing the system, you won't get banned. If you create an all-yankees team or a team of all players with the letter B in their name, and you can succeed, then great.
Does this mean that there are themes that are not allowed because they are perceived to be too weak to succeed?
Dogberry99 is offline   Reply With Quote
Thank you for this post:
Zorro (01-29-2019)
Old 01-29-2019, 01:45 PM   #42
zrog2000
All Star Starter
 
Join Date: Nov 2018
Posts: 1,347
Thanks: 584
Thanked 886x in 528 posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dogberry99 View Post
Does this mean that there are themes that are not allowed because they are perceived to be too weak to succeed?
Yeah, like the backup catcher at every position theme.
zrog2000 is offline   Reply With Quote
Thank you for this post:
Zorro (01-29-2019)
Old 01-29-2019, 02:02 PM   #43
Matt Arnold
OOTP Developer
 
Matt Arnold's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Toronto
Posts: 8,482
Thanks: 975
Thanked 10,502x in 4,128 posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by zrog2000 View Post
Yeah, like the backup catcher at every position theme.
It also depends on the level of play too. The "all-iron" theme might work at Silver, but definitely not for Diamond level.

A simple rule of thumb, that doesn't catch every case, would be "would this team make it to this level if I started with them?" So the all-Catcher team, or the all-iron team, can probably legit be good enough to make it to Silver, but likely not past there. Obviously not the only condition at play, but if the answer to the above question is no, then I'd reconsider the rules of your team. We're not out there to ban people who enjoy having fun with the system, and who want to experiment, but we can't have teams out there throwing meatballs to the other teams.

Another rule of thumb would be "Don't be an a**". But that should just be a general rule of life
Matt Arnold is offline   Reply With Quote
4 thanks for this post:
atabakin (01-29-2019), BoofBonser26 (01-29-2019), KWhit (01-30-2019), Zorro (01-29-2019)
Old 01-29-2019, 02:25 PM   #44
Dogberry99
All Star Reserve
 
Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: Wichita Falls, TX
Posts: 769
Thanks: 528
Thanked 344x in 244 posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt Arnold View Post
...but if the answer to the above question is no, then I'd reconsider the rules of your team.
My specific concern is arriving at a different answer from those making the judgement.

For example, after 2 years in Diamond with minimal upgrades and a regular season record just under .500 in both Diamond and in all league levels combined, my answer for my main team was a resounding No as well, but I still got promoted due to the luck of being in a weaker league and getting hot in time for the playoffs. Going 20-60 through 29 June reaffirmed this belief. Even though my record since has improved (though still no better than .500 at best, and likely worse if the small sample size is corrected as I believe it will eventually), I am still very wary, especially since I still see myself hemorrhaging points to my competition far too often.

It is easy to see the extreme cases. However, most people do not know where the line is. I sure don't...

Last edited by Dogberry99; 01-29-2019 at 02:49 PM.
Dogberry99 is offline   Reply With Quote
Thank you for this post:
Zorro (01-29-2019)
Old 01-29-2019, 03:24 PM   #45
zrog2000
All Star Starter
 
Join Date: Nov 2018
Posts: 1,347
Thanks: 584
Thanked 886x in 528 posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt Arnold View Post
It also depends on the level of play too. The "all-iron" theme might work at Silver, but definitely not for Diamond level.

A simple rule of thumb, that doesn't catch every case, would be "would this team make it to this level if I started with them?" So the all-Catcher team, or the all-iron team, can probably legit be good enough to make it to Silver, but likely not past there. Obviously not the only condition at play, but if the answer to the above question is no, then I'd reconsider the rules of your team. We're not out there to ban people who enjoy having fun with the system, and who want to experiment, but we can't have teams out there throwing meatballs to the other teams.

Another rule of thumb would be "Don't be an a**". But that should just be a general rule of life
I would also use the rule *if a team is .500, it's not ever going to be banned for tanking.
zrog2000 is offline   Reply With Quote
Thank you for this post:
Zorro (01-29-2019)
Old 01-29-2019, 03:31 PM   #46
BoofBonser26
Major Leagues
 
BoofBonser26's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Chicago
Posts: 349
Thanks: 2,405
Thanked 126x in 81 posts
Sure - even the fact of a team losing (if it's not intentional) isn't a problem per se. It's the PP gifted to opponents in lopsided losses. So if you're .500 or even .400 but not getting blown out in your losses, I'd hope it's not a problem.
BoofBonser26 is offline   Reply With Quote
2 thanks for this post:
Matt Arnold (01-29-2019), Zorro (01-29-2019)
Old 01-29-2019, 03:53 PM   #47
pstrickert
Hall Of Famer
 
pstrickert's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 12,338
Thanks: 2,809
Thanked 3,614x in 2,016 posts
What about selective tanking? Someone could agree to help a friend (once the “friend” feature is up and running) build up some PPs in one league, while the friend returns the favor in another league, by tanking only during their matchups. Or they could trade blowout wins when facing each other in the same league. Several thousand PP for you in one game; several thousand PP for me in the next. Hardly anyone would even notice.
pstrickert is online now   Reply With Quote
Thank you for this post:
Zorro (01-29-2019)
Old 01-29-2019, 03:57 PM   #48
Matt Arnold
OOTP Developer
 
Matt Arnold's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Toronto
Posts: 8,482
Thanks: 975
Thanked 10,502x in 4,128 posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by pstrickert View Post
What about selective tanking? Someone could agree to help a friend (once the “friend” feature is up and running) build up some PPs in one league, while the friend returns the favor in another league, by tanking only during their matchups. Or they could trade blowout wins when facing each other in the same league. Several thousand PP for you in one game; several thousand PP for me in the next. Hardly anyone would even notice.
If anyone does notice, report them, send a note to Lukas, Alex, or Jeff, and they will be banned. Selective tanking against only certain teams is a clear violation of rules.
Matt Arnold is offline   Reply With Quote
3 thanks for this post:
Kushiel (01-29-2019), pstrickert (01-29-2019), Zorro (01-29-2019)
Old 01-29-2019, 03:59 PM   #49
Kushiel
All Star Starter
 
Kushiel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Lake Dallas, Texas
Posts: 1,195
Thanks: 1,043
Thanked 829x in 520 posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by pstrickert View Post
What about selective tanking? Someone could agree to help a friend (once the “friend” feature is up and running) build up some PPs in one league, while the friend returns the favor in another league, by tanking only during their matchups. Or they could trade blowout wins when facing each other in the same league. Several thousand PP for you in one game; several thousand PP for me in the next. Hardly anyone would even notice.
If they get found out they are cheating and deserve what they get and more. The punishment is never severe enough for cheaters. If it were up to me that would be a lifetime ban.
__________________
[/URL]
Kushiel is offline   Reply With Quote
Thank you for this post:
Zorro (01-29-2019)
Old 01-29-2019, 06:08 PM   #50
Zorro
Hall Of Famer
 
Zorro's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 2,763
Blog Entries: 3
Thanks: 2,798
Thanked 1,216x in 895 posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by pstrickert View Post
What about selective tanking? Someone could agree to help a friend (once the “friend” feature is up and running) build up some PPs in one league, while the friend returns the favor in another league, by tanking only during their matchups. Or they could trade blowout wins when facing each other in the same league. Several thousand PP for you in one game; several thousand PP for me in the next. Hardly anyone would even notice.
Jeez, You would make a good crook my friend. I would never even think of that let alone notice. 🙃
Zorro is offline   Reply With Quote
Thank you for this post:
pstrickert (01-29-2019)
Old 01-29-2019, 06:13 PM   #51
pstrickert
Hall Of Famer
 
pstrickert's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 12,338
Thanks: 2,809
Thanked 3,614x in 2,016 posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zorro View Post
Jeez, You would make a good crook my friend. I would never even think of that let alone notice. 🙃
I definitely wouldn’t notice, either. I’m too focused on my own team.
pstrickert is online now   Reply With Quote
Thank you for this post:
Zorro (01-29-2019)
Old 01-29-2019, 06:16 PM   #52
Zorro
Hall Of Famer
 
Zorro's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 2,763
Blog Entries: 3
Thanks: 2,798
Thanked 1,216x in 895 posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by pstrickert View Post
I definitely wouldn’t notice, either. I’m too focused on my own team.
But that was some genius thinking. 👏
Zorro is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-29-2019, 06:16 PM   #53
pstrickert
Hall Of Famer
 
pstrickert's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 12,338
Thanks: 2,809
Thanked 3,614x in 2,016 posts
Unless I’m mistaken, the PP payout for blowout-related achievements is less than it used to be. If so, then that’s a step in the right direction. Make it so the reward is not worth the risk.
pstrickert is online now   Reply With Quote
4 thanks for this post:
BoofBonser26 (01-30-2019), NYY #23 (01-29-2019), old timer (01-29-2019), Zorro (01-29-2019)
Old 01-29-2019, 06:17 PM   #54
Dogberry99
All Star Reserve
 
Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: Wichita Falls, TX
Posts: 769
Thanks: 528
Thanked 344x in 244 posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by BoofBonser26 View Post
Sure - even the fact of a team losing (if it's not intentional) isn't a problem per se. It's the PP gifted to opponents in lopsided losses. So if you're .500 or even .400 but not getting blown out in your losses, I'd hope it's not a problem.
But is it a problem if my .400 team IS getting blown out?

My concern is that I do often get blown out in my losses, especially since my ballpark is skewed towards offense and my pitching especially is not exactly up to Perfect standards (though the few recent acquisitions have specifically targeted this weakness).

I am all good with bringing down the hammer hard on cheaters. However, we first must define what is and is not cheating. We do not yet have a suitable definition. The Potter Stewart "I'll know it when I see it" standard is not sufficient.
__________________
"And, Masters, do not forget to specify, when time and place shall serve, that I am an [censored]." (Much Ado About Nothing 5.1.255-256)
Dogberry99 is offline   Reply With Quote
Thank you for this post:
Zorro (01-29-2019)
Old 01-29-2019, 06:18 PM   #55
zrog2000
All Star Starter
 
Join Date: Nov 2018
Posts: 1,347
Thanks: 584
Thanked 886x in 528 posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by pstrickert View Post
Unless I’m mistaken, the PP payout for blowout-related achievements is less than it used to be. If so, then that’s a step in the right direction. Make it so the reward is not worth the risk.
Not a blowout, but I did get a 5000 point gold achievement for a 100 game score. Only gave up one baserunner too, so it could have been even more. Theoretically one could game that by putting all pitchers in their lineup.
zrog2000 is offline   Reply With Quote
Thank you for this post:
Zorro (01-29-2019)
Old 01-29-2019, 07:07 PM   #56
Kushiel
All Star Starter
 
Kushiel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Lake Dallas, Texas
Posts: 1,195
Thanks: 1,043
Thanked 829x in 520 posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dogberry99 View Post
But is it a problem if my .400 team IS getting blown out?

My concern is that I do often get blown out in my losses, especially since my ballpark is skewed towards offense and my pitching especially is not exactly up to Perfect standards (though the few recent acquisitions have specifically targeted this weakness).

I am all good with bringing down the hammer hard on cheaters. However, we first must define what is and is not cheating. We do not yet have a suitable definition. The Potter Stewart "I'll know it when I see it" standard is not sufficient.
If a manager loses on purpose for any reason he/she is tanking. If the person does not dance with the ones that brung him/her or better to the current level, he/she is tanking to lose. Higher leagues are no place to start dismantling a team. By not playing the team that got the person as high as they are and allowing some teams a smorgasbord of PP, the person is cheating everybody else. I thought Matt was pretty clear.
__________________
[/URL]
Kushiel is offline   Reply With Quote
2 thanks for this post:
NYY #23 (01-29-2019), Zorro (01-29-2019)
Old 01-29-2019, 07:52 PM   #57
Dogberry99
All Star Reserve
 
Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: Wichita Falls, TX
Posts: 769
Thanks: 528
Thanked 344x in 244 posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kushiel View Post
If a manager loses on purpose for any reason he/she is tanking. If the person does not dance with the ones that brung him/her or better to the current level, he/she is tanking to lose. Higher leagues are no place to start dismantling a team. By not playing the team that got the person as high as they are and allowing some teams a smorgasbord of PP, the person is cheating everybody else. I thought Matt was pretty clear.
Even this is not clear. One interpretation is that a team would be required to obtain a new card prior to replacing an old card, and that selling a card to get the points to eventually upgrade is not allowed. I doubt this is meant to be an example, but it is a textbook example of not dancing with the ones that brought me and dismantling a team partially to make alterations that are hopefully (though not guaranteed to be) an improvement.

Also, there's the problematic fact that the devs themselves have said on these very forums that losing on purpose is acceptable under certain conditions. Some example strategies they cited as appropriate included playing cards out of position to gain defensive experience, though they did not say if there was a limit to what was acceptable (such as the extreme example of the all-catcher team).


The standards we have are neither clear nor consistent. The creates more, not less, work for those actively investigating reported cheating, while also exposing them to criticism centered on arbitrary enforcement of rules. Our dev team deserves better.
__________________
"And, Masters, do not forget to specify, when time and place shall serve, that I am an [censored]." (Much Ado About Nothing 5.1.255-256)

Last edited by Dogberry99; 01-29-2019 at 07:54 PM.
Dogberry99 is offline   Reply With Quote
Thank you for this post:
BoofBonser26 (01-30-2019)
Old 01-29-2019, 08:08 PM   #58
NYY #23
Hall Of Famer
 
NYY #23's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Philadelphia
Posts: 12,930
Blog Entries: 17
Thanks: 4,110
Thanked 3,407x in 2,480 posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dogberry99 View Post
Even this is not clear. One interpretation is that a team would be required to obtain a new card prior to replacing an old card, and that selling a card to get the points to eventually upgrade is not allowed. I doubt this is meant to be an example, but it is a textbook example of not dancing with the ones that brought me and dismantling a team partially to make alterations that are hopefully (though not guaranteed to be) an improvement.

Also, there's the problematic fact that the devs themselves have said on these very forums that losing on purpose is acceptable under certain conditions. Some example strategies they cited as appropriate included playing cards out of position to gain defensive experience, though they did not say if there was a limit to what was acceptable (such as the extreme example of the all-catcher team).


The standards we have are neither clear nor consistent. The creates more, not less, work for those actively investigating reported cheating, while also exposing them to criticism centered on arbitrary enforcement of rules. Our dev team deserves better.
I feel like it is pretty clear. Are you trying to win, or purposely trying to lose? Are you putting your best team forward, or did you get to diamond and say - this is too hard, let me put in a team of iron players to lose until I'm back in bronze and can dominate. Are you playing a player in a position they are capable of playing, or do you purposely playing players out of position? Do you have five starting pitchers, or do you have a bunch of closers in your rotation, with no bullpen?

I really don't think they have any intent to go after a team because they were promoted, but may not have the best starting pitchers. While training someone for a new position may hurt you longterm the intent is to make the team better long term right?

I also doubt they are going after players who sell a card to raise money for an upgrade, as long as you have an acceptable substitute.

People who tank know what they are doing. It seems pretty clear to me, try to win with an acceptable team for your level and I think you'll be fine.
NYY #23 is offline   Reply With Quote
2 thanks for this post:
Kushiel (01-30-2019), Zorro (01-29-2019)
Old 01-30-2019, 07:34 AM   #59
Kushiel
All Star Starter
 
Kushiel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Lake Dallas, Texas
Posts: 1,195
Thanks: 1,043
Thanked 829x in 520 posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dogberry99 View Post
Even this is not clear. One interpretation is that a team would be required to obtain a new card prior to replacing an old card, and that selling a card to get the points to eventually upgrade is not allowed. I doubt this is meant to be an example, but it is a textbook example of not dancing with the ones that brought me and dismantling a team partially to make alterations that are hopefully (though not guaranteed to be) an improvement.

Also, there's the problematic fact that the devs themselves have said on these very forums that losing on purpose is acceptable under certain conditions. Some example strategies they cited as appropriate included playing cards out of position to gain defensive experience, though they did not say if there was a limit to what was acceptable (such as the extreme example of the all-catcher team).


The standards we have are neither clear nor consistent. The creates more, not less, work for those actively investigating reported cheating, while also exposing them to criticism centered on arbitrary enforcement of rules. Our dev team deserves better.
Are you just trying to find some wiggle room to lose on purpose?
__________________
[/URL]
Kushiel is offline   Reply With Quote
Thank you for this post:
Zorro (01-30-2019)
Old 01-30-2019, 03:34 PM   #60
Dogberry99
All Star Reserve
 
Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: Wichita Falls, TX
Posts: 769
Thanks: 528
Thanked 344x in 244 posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kushiel View Post
Are you just trying to find some wiggle room to lose on purpose?
Since I joined your Perfect League last season, I have added Cy Blanton, Tug McGraw, and Wilcy Moore. I am not trying to lose on purpose, but my concern is that people will claim I am because I still start players like Carlos Martinez, Rookie Tulo, Jody Davis, and far too many left handed and groundball pitchers, and because my team regularly gives your team way more points than any competitive team ought to.

My concern is that there is far too much wiggle room. My goal is to eliminate this wiggle room, not create more of it.
__________________
"And, Masters, do not forget to specify, when time and place shall serve, that I am an [censored]." (Much Ado About Nothing 5.1.255-256)

Last edited by Dogberry99; 01-30-2019 at 03:41 PM.
Dogberry99 is offline   Reply With Quote
2 thanks for this post:
BoofBonser26 (01-31-2019), Kushiel (01-30-2019)
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 11:14 AM.

 

Major League Baseball trademarks and copyrights are used with permission of MLB Advanced Media, L.P. Minor League Baseball trademarks and copyrights are used with the permission of Minor League Baseball. All rights reserved.

The Major League Baseball Players Association (www.MLBPLAYERS.com ) is the collective bargaining representative for all professional baseball players of the thirty Major League Baseball teams and serves as the exclusive group licensing agent for commercial and licensing activities involving active Major League baseball players. On behalf of its members, it operates the Players Choice licensing program and the Players Choice Awards, which benefit the needy through the Major League Baseball Players Trust, a charitable foundation established and run entirely by Major League baseball players. Follow: @MLB_Players; @MLBPAClubhouse; @MLBPlayersTrust

Out of the Park Baseball is a registered trademark of Out of the Park Developments GmbH & Co. KG

Google Play is a trademark of Google Inc.

Apple, iPhone, iPod touch and iPad are trademarks of Apple Inc., registered in the U.S. and other countries.

COPYRIGHT © 2017 OUT OF THE PARK DEVELOPMENTS. ALL RIGHTS RESERVED.

 

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.10
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Copyright © 2018 Out of the Park Developments