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Old 05-24-2018, 11:01 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cobra Mgr View Post
So the Braves were poorly run when they won only one WS in a decade & a half of playoff appearances?
Are the Braves from that time remembered as great clubs? Or do folks remember more how much they couldn't seal the deal?

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But pointing to 4 SB runner-ups as evidence of a poorly run franchise is a stretch.
Combine that with the subsequent years of futility. Aggregate picture, remember.
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Old 05-24-2018, 11:05 AM   #22
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I don't think I've read an article yet where they haven't referred to the Knights as a team of castoffs, players nobody wanted, etc etc.
That aside, the overall analysis vis-a-vis the Leafs is accurate.

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Part of Vegas agreeing to pay that amount of money was an understanding that there would be good players available. This was made well known back when the expansion process started and they were planning the draft process. What better way to build a fan base then to be competitive and entertaining right away?
Every other expansion club from every other league wishes they had received as sweet a deal as the Golden Knights received. It makes a bit of a mockery of the process.
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Old 05-24-2018, 11:06 AM   #23
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I have a question for the OP - how do you define "Worse Run"?

Do you mean lack of success on the field (Championships) or lack of success at the Box Office (Bottom Line)?
Arguably, the metric would consider all of these. (Where to place the weight on each component is another question entirely.)
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Old 05-24-2018, 11:19 AM   #24
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St. Louis Blues. No Stanley Cups, since ever.
They've made the playoffs 32 of the past 38 years...and 4 of the 6 misses came in a 5 year period. Not only no Cups, but not even an appearance in the Finals during that time frame.

An inspiring string of slightly better than mediocrity.
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Old 05-24-2018, 11:34 AM   #25
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Originally Posted by Le Grande Orange View Post
Are the Braves from that time remembered as great clubs? Or do folks remember more how much they couldn't seal the deal?
The question isn't greatness. The subject is poorly run. Lack of success is definitely a symptom of bad management. But using lack of a titles in a vacuum to question how competent they've been isn't fair.

Quote:
Combine that with the subsequent years of futility. Aggregate picture, remember.
Again, not saying they aren't near the bottom. But 4 straight SB years is a positive, not a negative. I'd be more inclined to point out how bad they were despite one of the best RB's ever in OJ Simpson. I'd put on exhibit only one playoff appearance this century.
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Old 05-24-2018, 11:35 AM   #26
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yeah the deal that Vegas got was slightly better than the Carolina/Houston deal in the NFL

and way better than the Tampa Bay/Seattle deal
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Old 05-24-2018, 03:53 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by Le Grande Orange View Post
Are the Braves from that time remembered as great clubs? Or do folks remember more how much they couldn't seal the deal?
Well, the OP referred to "the worst run team in professional sports," so I don't think that the 4-straight-Super-Bowl-losses Bills, nor the perennial division-titlist Braves would qualify. They are typically remembered as having great runs but not being able to seal the deal (except for the Braves sealing the deal once).

I remember that while both the Braves and Bills were in the midst of their not-quite-title runs, I thought the answer was in their names: Combine the NFL city with the MLB nickname and what do you have? Buffalo Braves. And we all know what became of that team!
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Old 05-24-2018, 03:58 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by Bluenoser View Post
I have a question for the OP - how do you define "Worse Run"?

Do you mean lack of success on the field (Championships) or lack of success at the Box Office (Bottom Line)?

Hockey - Buffalo and Arizona
Baseball - Miami
Football - Rams
Basketball - Can't opine really, never followed enough to make an informed decision
being irrelevant for long periods of time, I suppose
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Old 05-24-2018, 04:31 PM   #29
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I'm surprised nobody has mentioned the Detriot Lions. Sure, the Browns are worse. But since the Lions' last championship in 1957, they've made the playoffs a mere 12 times (that's in a 60-year span), with a 1-12 playoff record, and multiple streaks of futility and mediocrity. And since 1972, they've had back-to-back winning (above .500) seasons only from 93-95, and the most recent two seasons (when they were a mere 9-7 in both).

Actually, although the Browns recent futility (since 2003) is pretty epic, overall they compare pretty favorably to the Lions over the same period of time, with Cleveland snagging a title (1964), and having more playoff appearances, playoff wins, and winning seasons.

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Old 05-24-2018, 09:24 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cobra Mgr View Post
TBut 4 straight SB years is a positive, not a negative.
They LOST FOUR IN A ROW. That a futility record among the big 4 North American sports leagues. (The most in any of the others is three in a row). Had the Bills managed to win one of those four Super Bowls, they'd be remembered from that time as one of the great dynasties. Losing FOUR in a row? (Three by blow out) -- Different picture altogether.

Being remembered as a great club means (in part) bringing home the championship at least a time or two. That is the ultimate goal, after all.
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Old 05-25-2018, 03:25 AM   #31
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Being remembered as a great club means (in part) bringing home the championship at least a time or two. That is the ultimate goal, after all.
Sure. But I don't think the debate is whether the Bills of that era are remembered (outside of Buffalo) as a great team or not. It's whether the four straight losses adds to their overall legacy of futility, or whether it subtracts from it. And I would contend that four straight SB appearances (even though they were losses) - along with a 49-15 regular-season record and 9-4 playoff record - subtracts from a legacy of futility. Certainly not as much as a couple of Lombardi Trophies would've subtracted from it, but there's simply no denying that for 4 straight years the Bills (whom I despised, btw... I'm a long suffering Dolphin fan and Marino fan) were the class of the AFC. And that can't contribute to the resume of "worst run team in sports." At least not IMO
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Old 05-25-2018, 07:15 AM   #32
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Is there some reason why a number of people on this forum do not want to understand what the discussion is and just take a contrarian view no matter what?
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Old 05-25-2018, 08:44 AM   #33
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the Bills stayed relevant in that period of time.

speaking of which, any argument for an AFC East team being badly run has to blame the Pats for their consistent success.
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Old 05-25-2018, 11:31 AM   #34
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Is there some reason why a number of people on this forum do not want to understand what the discussion is and just take a contrarian view no matter what?
Eh, I've gotten used to that over the years (and I am saying this in general, not specifically about anybody or anything said in this thread).

Some people are naturally that way: combative. To them, the give and take of argument are more important than the principle being argued.

But in most cases, I think it's because this is a forum, after all, and it's meant for discussion, not merely recitation of facts and opinions. That is what keeps it alive and healthy, which I hope it will always be.

So if I were to say the sky is blue, and somebody were to come along to correct me that the sky is often grey and is always black at night, I would shrug. For one thing, technically he would be correct.
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Old 05-25-2018, 03:06 PM   #35
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Eh, I've gotten used to that over the years (and I am saying this in general, not specifically about anybody or anything said in this thread).

Some people are naturally that way: combative. To them, the give and take of argument are more important than the principle being argued.

But in most cases, I think it's because this is a forum, after all, and it's meant for discussion, not merely recitation of facts and opinions. That is what keeps it alive and healthy, which I hope it will always be.

So if I were to say the sky is blue, and somebody were to come along to correct me that the sky is often grey and is always black at night, I would shrug. For one thing, technically he would be correct.
I don't mind discussion. I love debate. I hate someone countering me w/something never discussed or debated. They get you swimming when you just wanted to cruise in the boat or relax on the beach. Then think they actually accomplished something. No, they just started a needless argument. Debate is fun & informative. Arguing is a waste of time and emotion.
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Old 05-25-2018, 04:08 PM   #36
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Sometimes badly run is relative. Take the Portland Trailblazers, for example. The almost always make the playoffs, often with a good seed, yet they just can't make deep runs once they get there. I think I can only recall one time in the last 15 years where they actually won a playoff series.

That makes them a very frustrating team to follow. And the only explanation for it I can think of is that the team can't sign players whose mentality is built around the postseason. The team's emphasis appears to be on just getting in.

Now admittedly only one team can win a conference in a year. And the Blazers have two or three really good teams who are clearly better than themselves. But if Golden State, one of the league's laughingstocks for decades, can become a perpetual force in the West, why not Portland?
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Old 05-25-2018, 04:51 PM   #37
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Sometimes badly run is relative. Take the Portland Trailblazers, for example. The almost always make the playoffs, often with a good seed, yet they just can't make deep runs once they get there. I think I can only recall one time in the last 15 years where they actually won a playoff series.

That makes them a very frustrating team to follow. And the only explanation for it I can think of is that the team can't sign players whose mentality is built around the postseason. The team's emphasis appears to be on just getting in.

Now admittedly only one team can win a conference in a year. And the Blazers have two or three really good teams who are clearly better than themselves. But if Golden State, one of the league's laughingstocks for decades, can become a perpetual force in the West, why not Portland?
I was thinking about the Blazers offline when it came to this topic. I think in the NBA, you have to build a champion with 2 superstars, or 4-6 potential all-Stars. Which is easier? Neither is, if you ask me. Portland thru the decades has been good in getting a couple of all-Stars on their teams. So they are good at making the postseason, but not good enough to do anything once there. You look at the times Portland did make the finals, they managed to find a superstar (Walton/Drexler) and surround them with all-Star caliber talent.

So I wouldn't classify them as "badly run". I just think it is hard to win it all. You have to hope that transcendent athlete falls in your lap, another wants to play with you, and that you have enough money and space to fill in the gaps w/highly skilled glue guys.
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Old 05-25-2018, 06:44 PM   #38
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Badly run to me means a long post season drought or your team is on the verge or being moved to another city or being sold off because of front office incompetence.
So of the franchises being listed would have success that some fan bases would kill for.
Ask an Orlando Magic fan or Sacramento fan if they would trade places with the Blazers and they would instantly do so.

Ask the Browns if they would like to make it to 4 straight Super Bowls even if it meant losing them and they would say yes before you could even finish the question.

Ask the Mariners if they would trade not having gone to the post season since 2001 for winning their division 14 times in a row but only one championship and they would also say yes.

Yes, the ultimate goal is to win a championship but they only hand out one each year and there is a vast difference between having even an outside shot at winning it and having almost no chance.

To me the OP was more about franchises so poorly ran that they have almost ran out of hope.
Not those that were ran well enough to the point where they are making the playoffs fairly consistently.
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Old 05-26-2018, 08:58 PM   #39
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Sometimes badly run is relative. Take the Portland Trailblazers, for example. The almost always make the playoffs, often with a good seed, yet they just can't make deep runs once they get there. I think I can only recall one time in the last 15 years where they actually won a playoff series.

That makes them a very frustrating team to follow. And the only explanation for it I can think of is that the team can't sign players whose mentality is built around the postseason. The team's emphasis appears to be on just getting in.

Now admittedly only one team can win a conference in a year. And the Blazers have two or three really good teams who are clearly better than themselves. But if Golden State, one of the league's laughingstocks for decades, can become a perpetual force in the West, why not Portland?

Sounds like the St. Louis Blues in hockey. Just one freaking Stanley Cup before I die, please. Just ONE.
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