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Old 08-20-2006, 09:36 AM   #1
CONN CHRIS
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Large universe Rules and Whatnot

I have had two requests over the weekend for a set of rules governing my REC universe (reported on in the Glasgow Picayune thread down in 'Between the Ropes'). To me, that's a landslide of interest, so I thought that I would start a thread on the subject before the long, clamoring line adds a third person.

This will not be as detailed as Mike's thread with respect to setting a universe up but will focus more on using the game to administer a large universe. Hopefully, a few people will pick up an idea that they can use. I know that I got lots of ideas from looking at what other folks were doing.

My universe currently has more than 8,000 active fighters broken into 5 geographical areas with a world title, five regional titles and 45 minor titles for each of the 17 weight divisions. I use the scheduler to do most of the work rather than a spreadsheet. The only pieces of paper that I use are the attached excel sheet for regional play months and a ranking sheet for international play months but more on that later.

Here is what I will cover:

1) Initial set up (no where near as detailed as Mike's great thread)
- New database
- Building a base of experienced stiffs
- Regions, countries and venues
- Aging
2) Regional play
- Regional and minor title fight scheduling
- Detailed use of the scheduling filters
3) International play
- World title fights
- Match-ups
4) Introduction of rookies
- Selection
- fighter file export, import and set-up
5) Maintenance issues
- Performance points
- watching for stragglers
6) Other
- Whatever may come to mind or be asked as I go through this.

I hope to hit item one sometime today, perhaps more if time permits.
Attached Files
File Type: zip Belts.zip (3.5 KB, 634 views)
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Old 08-20-2006, 09:57 AM   #2
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8K fighters is 10x more then I have ever worked with, and I look forward to seeing how you keep up with such a large # of fighters.
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Old 08-20-2006, 10:24 AM   #3
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I thnk I'm around 800 now and I can barely keep up .. good work Chirs
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Old 08-20-2006, 10:51 AM   #4
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As I only deal with heavyweights, I can't begin to imagine the work Chris must put into his Universe.

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Old 08-20-2006, 11:56 AM   #5
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wow i cant wait to read this
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Old 08-20-2006, 12:27 PM   #6
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1) Initial set up

- New database

To start with, I did as Mike suggested in his universe creation thread:

Quote:
Originally Posted by mh2365
Okay first thing I would do is to go into the options screen - goto databases - type in a name for a new database and hit create new ...

For this universe I'm only gonna use welterweights so I'll just call the new db WW ... this will create a new db from the original db (or the one we just got)

Once you type it in it will shut down the game, when you reopen it your new database should be loaded.

this database has 3013 fighters in the "men" group - 308 welterweights
A) Since I was building a universe from the ground up, I deleted all but one fighter. I found out the hard way that if you delete all the fighters in a database, you cannot add any new ones leaving you with a dead, useless database. After putting the initial fighters into the new data base, the one left from earlier can also be deleted.

B) Populating the new database:

I began with approximately 2,500 stiffs (tomato cans) all with country of origin, birth year and career start year set to match what I wanted (I started in 1897). I did this by utilizing the tomato can template at cornerwork. But if anyone else wants to start a project like this now they can grab the zip files located in the following thread and pull in 3,000 + stiffs all set to begin in 1903.

http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/boar...d.php?t=113890

Unzip the the files and extract to a temporary folder that you create. Within the game select 'import fighters' browse to the folder and highlight all of them. Select yes to 'import duplicates' and 'no' to the over-right question. These will pop up because many of the stiffs are just copies of each other with different names that the game sees as duplicates.

Once imported, I'll steal Mike's comment about setting up the database further:

Quote:
Originally Posted by mh2365
Databases - the "set all fighters to cs adjust" button, this is a tricky one esp. if you plan on using current fighters. This will set all fighters to active, mark their cs adj button on the ratings page and they will then be subjected to aging and career stages. The problem is that it will also set everyone to Prime using inverted formulas for fighters not currently rated at prime. I makes for some outlandish ratings and you would be required to adjust alot of fighters.

I use historical so it doesn't effect me, I am hoping it is fixed by the time I come even close to current guys. If you want to start one using current fighters and not do this, then you would have to manually check the cs adj button on all the fighters you use and rerate them yourself on how you feel they would have been at prime.

For this example I'm going to start with WW in the 70's so I'm hitting the cs adj button in the options. once you hit the button you have to type in yes to confirm it then it takes it a few minutes to do all it has to do. It popped back up and said it adjusted like 1500 fighters, now all fighters are active and their cs adjust button is checked
Up next (later today):

- Regions, countries and venues
- Use of Groups function
- Building a base of experienced stiffs
- Aging
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Old 08-20-2006, 02:18 PM   #7
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I think that part of the reason I've had trouble in the past setting up my own universe is that I've overstretched myself, trying to make it TOO BIG!

The other thread about starting a new universe has helped a lot in that respect.

Now I'll be interested to see just what it takes to create a very large universe.

btw, just downloaded the spreadsheet can't wait to find out how that's used.
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Old 08-20-2006, 02:25 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PublicEnemy
btw, just downloaded the spreadsheet can't wait to find out how that's used.
It's an ultra simplistic sheet to use. I need simplicity given the size of this thing. It is nothing compared to the spreadsheets that Mike, Gunsmoke, Cube and others have devised and use.
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Old 08-20-2006, 02:34 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CONN CHRIS
It's an ultra simplistic sheet to use. I need simplicity given the size of this thing. It is nothing compared to the spreadsheets that Mike, Gunsmoke, Cube and others have devised and use.
I'm sure it's simplistic in itself, it's just that I began to realise the size of your universe when I saw that Wales has it's own regional title!

And I thought that Isthmus was some sort of skin disease.
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Old 08-20-2006, 02:43 PM   #10
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1) Initial set up


- Use of Groups function


Here is the way that I use the main groups function (I'll post the limited way that I use the sub-group function later).

I have the universe divided into five main geographical areas (groups). The main titles below the world level are fought for at these regional levels. Fighters begin their careers battling stiffs within their region and continue to fight tune-ups within their region. The mid and certainly low level fighters may grind out their whole careers there.

I Use these five sanctioning bodies. They are set up as Groups and organizations under the following names and abbreviations:

AABU - African and Arabian Boxing Union

APBC - Asian and Pacific Boxing Council

EBF - European Boxing Federation

NABF - North American Boxing Federation

SABC - South American Boxing Council

(If you don't know how to set up the Groups and Organizations please just ask)

Each fighter needs to be assigned to a geographical group. Without this, the scheduling (which will be discussed later) would be un-workable. If you start with the stiff files noted above and wish to us thes exact groups, the work is already done for you.

- Countries and venues

For me, I like all of the fights to take place in a location within one of the fighter's countries. Of course, big fights are sometimes set up at neutral locations.

As such, it is important for me to have a healthy number of locations within each country so the fight records don't end up with one locale over and over again. I do not care about having actual venue names, I just want a city and nation to appear in the fight record.

So, I set up at least 5 cities within each country (including the US states). I created 1,850 venues. You can download my venue,s Nations and Organizations dat files here if you like. I do not know if they will carry my universe information with them so you may want to test them out on a dummy universe first. Just download, then copy and paste them into the test database folder. Check the history tab - if stuff appears there, it is from my universe and you would want to delete that before going further.

The scheduler will randomly select appropriate venues from the 1850 listed but we will discuss that later. Ask questions if you want - I will try to answer everything.

Up next:

- Building a base of experienced stiffs
- Aging
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Last edited by CONN CHRIS; 08-20-2006 at 02:44 PM.
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Old 08-20-2006, 02:44 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PublicEnemy
I'm sure it's simplistic in itself, it's just that I began to realise the size of your universe when I saw that Wales has it's own regional title!

And I thought that Isthmus was some sort of skin disease.
Yeah, I'm admittedly a bit insane about this.
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Old 08-20-2006, 03:58 PM   #12
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1) Initial set up

- Side bar on stiffs

In my universe, I choose to use the principle that stiffs are people too. I assign them birth years, career start years and their own corner men as I do with all the 'real' fighters. They go through the same aging progression and can even challenge for titles (mostly the minor ones). I have a couple of stiffs that have held little belts for several years. At first, I tried getting rid of them but when these few kept winning (sometimes with the damnedest luck) I actually grew fond of them and began to protect them.

When a stiff retires, I leave him in tact, moved him to a retired group with the rest and clone him. I change the name, year of birth, et cetera on the clone. This way, I keep the balance of stiffs in the universe constant.

Right now, of the 8,500 or so active fighters, 5,500 are stiffs. I will likely create more as needed to keep a better than 2:1 stiff to real fighter ratio.

Here is the link to all the minor belts that I use, some of which are held by stiffs.

Still up next:

- Building a base of experienced stiffs
- Aging
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Old 08-20-2006, 04:02 PM   #13
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I've just been looking through your venues, an amazing amount of effort has gone into it.

Just a couple of questions.
1. You have the US States in the country column, how do you do that?
2. You mentioned randomly generating appropriate venues. If I wanted to add new cities, ie, Glasgow for Scotland and Cardiff for Wales, would it cause problems with that?
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Old 08-20-2006, 04:18 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PublicEnemy
I've just been looking through your venues, an amazing amount of effort has gone into it.

Just a couple of questions.
1. You have the US States in the country column, how do you do that?
2. You mentioned randomly generating appropriate venues. If I wanted to add new cities, ie, Glasgow for Scotland and Cardiff for Wales, would it cause problems with that?
1. Go to the Nations box at the bottom of the front screen select the 'new' button and you can add anything you like. Whatever you add will be listed as a 'Country"

2. I have both Glasgow and Cardiff as venues. Add them in the venues tab and select Scotland or Wales as the country and the auto scheduler can be set to select a random venue within a country when a fighter from that country is in a bout.

I'll say a whole lot about the scheduler and how I have come to use it when I get to that part.
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Old 08-20-2006, 10:21 PM   #15
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1) Initial set up

- Building a base of experienced stiffs

So, now we have a universe set up with 5 geographical groups, 1,850 venues and 3,000+ stiffs. At this point in my universe I built a four year pre-history with these stiffs so there would be an established body of fighters in the books when I began to add real fighters. (Actually, I started with about 2,500 stiffs and added about 300 in each of the pre-history years to get a feathered group of fighters. That might be too anal retentive for some though.)

Here is how to accomplish that with the auto-scheduler:

1) Click on 'scheduler' at the top right of the start screen.
2) Click on the auto scheduler button - lower left
3) General settings tab
----check 'Schedule each fighter only one time' and 'Update fighter records'
----Repeats for each bout = 1
----Max number of bouts to schedule = 300*
----Year of event = blank
----Max rating difference = blank
----Gender = Men
----Combine divisions = Combine only identical
----Year of random fight date = 1903 (or where ever you are starting)
----Month of random fight date = 1 (January)
4) Red Corner Tab
----Check 'Let the scheduler select fighters
----Group = AABU (assuming you are using the groups mentioned above and contained in the stiff packs)
----Era = All
----Division = All
----Career stage = Get from fighter record
----Condition = Conduct conditioning check
----Trainer & Cut man = Generic (this setting tells the game to get the set corner men from the fighter file or, if none are selected there, to use generic)
----Designate = No
----Nationality/Rank min/Rank max/Rating min/Rating max/Bouts min/Bouts max = blank
----Style = All
----Southpaw = All
5) Blue corner Tab
----Click 'Get settings' box to duplicate Red corner settings
6) Fight options Tab
----Apply Rule Set = APBC (refers to group)**
----Rules will auto load from Rule Set down to scoring system
----Number of rounds = 6 (this is what I used for the pre-history years)
----Two minute rounds = unchecked
----Check final four boxes
----Fight date = blank (or could have any date, this will be ignored due to the random year and month entered on the general tab)
----Venue = random (If you have the venues loaded as discussed earlier, the game will randomly select a venue from one of the two fighters' country of origin.)
----Announcer/Referee/Judges/Ring Card Girl = Random
----Judge's bias = Use bias rating
7) Click 'schedule bouts' in lower right corner. The game will schedule bouts for all divisions within the AABU group for January of 1903. Click 'start bouts' once scheduling is done.
8) Change the group on Red and Blue corner tabs to APBC and the rule set on the fight option tab to APBC. Repeat step 7.
9) Repeat step 8 for the EBF, NABF and SABC groups.
10) Change the random month to 2 on the general tab and run through all five groups again. Do the same for each month i.e. 3,4,5, et cetera.

At the end of 1903 you will have every fighter with 8 to 12 fights all spaced out nicely and only within their regional area (i.e. a fighter from Des Moines, Iowa will not fight in Iowa in January and then shuffle off to Bombay for his second pro bout). You could do a whole year at a time by not checking 'schedule each fighter only one time' upping the fights number and leaving the random month blank on the general settings tab. This would be much quicker but will give you screwy looking fight records with a fighter fighting 6 times in one month and sometimes twice in the same day.

This is a very basic use of the auto-scheduler meant only to build a base of experienced stiffs before starting your universe in earnest. I will go over more involved use of the scheduler when I post about the regional play.

* = max bouts equals total number of fighters in a group divided by two. Round down to the nearest 25 and you will get a nice distribution of annual fight totals rather than having everyone with exactly the same number of fights in the year.

** = If you don't know how to set up rule sets for each group please let me know.

- Aging

Here are the options I use for aging. This is subjective but here is what I use and like so far:

1) Go to options tab on the start screen
2) Select the aging tab (last one on right)
3) Check both boxes at the top
4) Set aging parameters - I use:
----Pre rime 1 to 4 bouts
----Prime 10 to 25
----Post prime 20 to 60
----End 10 to 20
----Retired 8 to 20
------This will give a career range of 49 to 129 fights. It seems pretty good to me so far.
5) Click 'Activate auto aging for each fighter'
6) Click 'Calculate next aging for all fighters' (You will not have to ever click this again, even when you bring in new fighters)

Up Next:

2) Regional play
- Regional and minor title fight scheduling
- Detailed use of the scheduling filters
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Old 08-21-2006, 10:14 AM   #16
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Hey Chris when you setup a new universe do you set all of the fighters to Beginning and if so is this done manually or is there some way to have the game do it. This is the one thing that gets very time consuming for me. Great job keep up the good work.
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Old 08-21-2006, 01:55 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gocubsgo
Hey Chris when you setup a new universe do you set all of the fighters to Beginning and if so is this done manually or is there some way to have the game do it. This is the one thing that gets very time consuming for me. Great job keep up the good work.
I have always done it by hand and do not believe that there is a quick fix available. It is a bit cumbersome but really doesn't take that much time. Especially after the initial year when you only need to deal with new incoming fighters.

Also, I received a PM about rule sets. These are mainly just personal preference unless you wish to mimic one of the real world alphabet group's rules. Even though they are just my preferences, I will post what I use for the various groups when I am at home tonight.

Up Next:

- Rule sets within the game

2) Regional play
- Regional and minor title fight scheduling
- Detailed use of the scheduling filters
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Old 08-21-2006, 02:15 PM   #18
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This is all very good stuff.
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Old 08-21-2006, 05:09 PM   #19
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Wasnt sure if one of you vets had come up with some other way.
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Old 08-21-2006, 06:36 PM   #20
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This is great stuff Chris. Just wanted to remind you to post the rules for the different groups you have when you get a chance tonight. Also, do you have the other flags that are on your list so they could be added to the game?
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