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OOTP 14 - Historical Simulations Discuss historical simulations and their results in this forum.

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Old 12-19-2013, 09:21 PM   #1
thehef
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historical databases - attempt at a summary

Attempts at clarifying the contents and uses of the common historical databases came up in another thread. Since I have been attempting to clarify for myself anyways, I thought I’d post my understanding of them so it might be helpful for others now and in the future, and so others with additional and/or greater knowledge than I (including the db creators) might be able to add comments, correction, clarification, and insights.

OOTP Database
Real Stats
Only major-leaguers are included
Players debut according to real-life MLB debut
Players import to actual team (i.e., Babe Ruth will import as a rookie to the Red Sox)
Actual stats are used for ratings
Missed player seasons (due to war, injury, season spent in minors, etc.) are not accounted for / have no stats (i.e., if you begin a league and import in 1943, Ted Williams will not appear)

Neutralized Stats
Only major-leaguers are included
Players debut according to real-life MLB debut
Players import to actual team
A mix of actual and neutralized stats are used for ratings
Missed player seasons are rated as if they played, based upon neutralized/reasonably-normed stats stats (i.e., if you begin a league and import in 1943, Ted Williams will import)

Spritze-Gambo Database
Real Stats
Not intended to be used for Real Stats mode of import

Neutralized Stats
Major-leaguers, selected negro-leaguers & career minor-leaguers, top 50 Japanese-leaguers included
Players debut according to their real-life professional - as opposed to major-league - debut
Players import to actual team (career minor-leaguers and Negro-leaguers import as free agents; crossover Negro-leaguers – those who played in the Negro Leagues and then moved to the majors – will import as free agents during their Negro-league years but will import to their actual MLB team during their MLB years) (Update: While minor-leaguers will import as free agents, some will import to their actual MLB organization.)
A mix of actual and neutralized stats are used for ratings (and the neutralized stats are are different than those used in OOTP database)
Missed player seasons are rated as if they played, based upon neutralized stats
Stats used for ratings are extended through age 38 for players who did not play to that age

(Note: The Spritz-Gambo db may be going defunct, based upon this post: http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/boar...ml#post3570467)

Spritze College-Age Database
Real Stats
Major-leaguers, negro-leaguers, career minor-leaguers, Japanese-leaguers included (many more Asians, Negro-leaguers, and others are included compared to Spritze-Gambo)
Players’ debut varies (some are MLB debut, some are pro debut)
Players import to most-common team (or as free agent if no MLB organization applicable; i.e., Babe Ruth will import as a rookie to the Yankees)
Mostly actual stats used for ratings (some neutralized stats are used)*
Missed player seasons are not accounted for / have no stats

(Note: Per Spritze, this db is best used as Neutralized; not sure how Real Stats would play out.)

Neutralized Stats
Major-leaguers, negro-leaguers, career minor-leaguers, Japanese-leaguers included (many more Asians - including a bunch of South Koreans, Negro-leaguers - including many from pre-1900, and others are included compared to Spritze-Gambo)
Players debut at age 18 (or earlier, if they debuted earlier in real life)
Players import to most-common team (or as free agent if no MLB organization applicable; i.e., Babe Ruth will import as a rookie to the Yankees)
Mostly actual stats used for ratings (some neutralized stats are used)*
Missed player seasons are rated as if they played, based upon neutralized stats
Stats used for ratings are extended through age 38 for players who did not play to that age
 
*For non-MLB player seasons, neutralized (or somehow derived) stats are used, and the neutralized stats used in Spritze-Gambo are sometimes the same as those used in Spritze College-Age, and sometimes not. And based upon very limited investigation, for career minor-leaguers it looks like neutralized stats are lower (not as good) in the Spritze-Gambo database, compared to the Spritze College-Age database. Finally, for pre-MLB season of MLB players, the stats given for these seasons appear to be high (good) enough – in many cases – to where the player will be good enough for the majors prior to the year of his real-life debut (Update: I believe this may no longer be the case. See this post: http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/boar...ml#post3620557).

My understanding is that regardless of which method you choose – Real Stats or Neutralized Stats – both will still import to be used for display purposes. These would be what you see when you select a player and view his Real Stats or Neutralized Stats. (The Spritz-Gambo database imports the OOTP db Real Stats for this.)


NOTES
  • The summaries above re how a players debut upon import assume gamers would be importing to historical team, not using a draft or importing all as free agents.
  • As far as I know, pre-1901 historical leagues will still start with a draft; players will not import to real-life teams.
  • I have no idea how these db’s behave with random debut, or if they can even be used for random debut.
  • There are issues, outlined here - http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/boar...ml#post3616395 - with using historical transactions and surrounding the use of Retire According to History and Miss Seasons According to History, that may cancel out / override attempts to fully utilize these databases.

Last edited by thehef; 01-11-2014 at 02:53 PM.
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Old 01-10-2014, 09:35 PM   #2
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So what extra players are included the Spritze and Spritze-Gambo db’s? you may or may not be wondering. Here’s a breakdown:

(First number is the Spritze College-Age db, second number is Spritze-Gambo; if only one number then it is the same for both db’s.)

PCL Career Players – 2796, 2792
Includes about 250 players who debuted prior to 1900, and generally somewhere between 10 and 50 guys with debuts in each year after that thru 1957.

Career Minor Leaguers of Note – 80
These guys debuted in the mid-70’s and later; includes notables from other sports who also played baseball, such as John Elway, Ricky Williams, Jay Schroeder, Scott Burrell, and several others; also includes others plucked for various reasons, including Bobby Bonds Jr, Don Mattingly’s kids, some notable “busts” – 1st-round picks who never made the bigs.

American Minor-leaguers of Note – 382
Not sure how these guys were selected but I recognize some as coaches (who never made the bigs), and I’m guessing several others were selected because they were long-time minor-leaguers, but not as noteworthy as the ones above.

Coaches & Managers – 69
More coaches & managers who didn’t make the bigs. Some of the managers in here seem more-recognizable to me than the group above.

Foreign Born Minor-leaguers & Others - 69

Negro-Leaguers
19th Century Negro-Leaguers who didn’t play in the Majors – 55, 17
20th Century Negro-Leaguers who didn’t play in the Majors – 206

Japenese-League Pros
Born in Japan – 4304, 44
Born in USA – 103
Born in Taiwan – 33, 0
Born in S Korea – 7, 1
Born in Born in Dom Republic – 9
Born in other countries – 19, 16
Add’l Players born in Japan – 313, 0

Korean-League Pros
Born in S Korea – 1238, 0
Born in other countries – 5

Cubans
78 Cubans are represented in all three databases (Spritze College-Age, Spritze-Gambo, and the OOTP db) as Negro Leaguers. Their debut dates will be different – significantly different (later) in the case of the OOTP db. These 78 are all guys who eventually played in the majors.

23 Cubans are guys who played in the 20th century and didn’t make the bigs. They can be found in the College-Age and Spritze-Gambo db, but not the OOTP one. They are part of the 206 20th Century Negro-Leaguers group above.

Nine Cubans are part of the Foreign-Born Minor-Leaguers group, four are part of the PCL Minor-Leaguers group, and two are part of the Japanese Pros Born in Other Countries group.

Disclaimer: My counts are just that, my counts. The real work is done by Spritze and Gambo and they would be the ultimate authority on any of this.

Last edited by thehef; 01-10-2014 at 09:41 PM. Reason: spelling
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Old 10-09-2014, 09:56 PM   #3
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This is very informative, but I am not finding the College DB anywhere. I have found a High School one and a recent update for it as well.

What am I missing here?

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Old 11-03-2014, 08:56 PM   #4
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The High School graduates db is called the collegiate database by some as all them players have a option to join the collegiate ranks after high school is done with them.
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