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Old 04-23-2014, 02:05 AM   #1
gRaider2001
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What Stats Do You Use

Hello All, I was wondering what stats do you use, which are the most important, when determining how good a batter or pitcher is? Thanks


Edit

I would like to say a BIG THANK YOU to everybody in this thread that contributed information and knowledge. Thank you:-)

Below you will find what is considered excellent, average and poor for each stat.

Reference - http://www.fangraphs.com

Hitters:

wOBA (Weighted On-Base Average):

Excellent - 0.400
Great - 0.370
Average - 0.320
Poor - 0.300

OPS (On-base Plus Slugging)

Excellent - 1.000
Great - 0.900
Average - 0.730
Poor - 0.600

ISO (Isolated Power)

Excellent - 0.250
Great - 0.200
Average - 0.145
Poor - 0.100

K% (Strikeout Rate)

Excellent - 10.0%
Great - 12.5%
Average - 18.5%
Poor - 25.0%

BB% (Walk Rate)

Excellent - 15.0%
Great - 12.5%
Average - 8.5%
Poor - 5.5%


OPS+ (On-base Plus Slugging Plus)

Excellent - 150 or more
Average - 100
Poor - 75 or below

WAR (Wins Above Replacement)

MVP - 6+ WAR
Good Player - 3-4 WAR
Role Player - 1-2 WAR

Pitchers:

ERA (Earned Run Average)

Excellent - 2.90
Great - 3.25
Average - 4.00
Poor - 4.50

ERA+

Above Average - Above 100
Average - 100
Below Average - Below 100

K/BB (Stritkeout-to-Walk Ratio

K% Strikeout Percentage)

Excellent - 25.0%
Great - 22.5%
Average - 18.5%
Poor - 12.5%

K/9 (Strikeout Rate)

Excellent - 10.0
Great - 8.5
Average - 7.1
Poor - 5.0

BB/9 (Walk Rate)

Excellent - 1.5
Great - 2.3
Average - 3.3
Poor - 4.5

BB% (Walk Percentage)

Excellent - 4.0%
Great - 6.0%
Above Average - 7.0%
Average - 8.5%
Poor - 9.5%

WHIP (Walks and Hits per Innings Pitched

Excellent - 1.00
Great - 1.10
Average - 1.32
Poor 1.50

IP/GS (Avg - ) (Good - )

FIP (Fielding Independent Pitching)

Excellent - 2.90
Great - 3.25
Above Average 3.75
Average - 4.00
Poor - 4.50


WALK (Avg - ) (Good - )
Ks (Avg - ) (Good - )
XBHs AVE (Avg - ) (Good - )

BABIP (Batting Average on Balls In Play)

Defense:

ZR

Above Average - Above zero
Average - plus/minus near zero
Below Average - Negative score
EFF (Avg - ) (Good - )

Last edited by gRaider2001; 04-27-2014 at 12:21 AM.
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Old 04-23-2014, 11:29 AM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gRaider2001 View Post
Hello All, I was wondering what stats do you use, which are the most important, when determining how good a batter or pitcher is? Thanks
For hitters, I start with wOBA and OPS+ if the league doesn't use neutral parks. For pitchers, ERA+, K/BB and K/9, BB/9.

After those top-level stats, I generally start to look at a hitter's triple-slash line, K% and BB%, and so forth. Pitchers, I look at actual ERA and WHIP, plus stuff like IP/GS.

But, I'm that weird guy that wants OOTP to add the full set of advanced stats options.
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Old 04-23-2014, 11:36 AM   #3
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And I am the traditionalist who likes to keep things simple. If I had only one statistic each for judging batters and pitchers, I would choose OBS (on base average + slugging) and WHIP (walks and hits per inning).
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Old 04-23-2014, 12:11 PM   #4
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WAR is a great way to eyeball a hitter's overall contributions in a single number. It includes defense too.

For pitchers, FIP is the way to go, IMHO. It gives you "ERA", but based on the peripherals instead of just bad/good luck.
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Old 04-23-2014, 12:44 PM   #5
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I am old school information guy I dont worry too much about the new stats too much although i like it ...I look at walks Ks and hits as well as XBHs Ave. and i do check if he is able to play a whole season without having to sit for a day off. for pitching i look again at BBs and Ks with the difderence with high number of Ks to low BBs. Innings pitched with hits allowed. Again with injuries to worry about too i check to see if they consistant with 30 starts or not. I do check scouting reports on the players too. WAR and other new stats to me confuse me more than help which is why i do things old school. To me old school says alot more about the player. Dont get me wrong the new stats stuff is a good thing too which would only validate the old school method
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Old 04-23-2014, 04:34 PM   #6
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I've begun to use wOBA a lot as my primary overview stat for batters. For pitchers I like FIP and also check BABIP to see if he's had bad luck year. Of course all the traditional stats are a must. I like ZR and EFF to see if a guy's above average or not defensively.
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Old 04-23-2014, 04:52 PM   #7
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If forced for one each:

WHIP for pitchers
OBS for batters

With a peek at WAR for both.
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Old 04-23-2014, 04:59 PM   #8
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Favourites would be WOBA, OBP and WAR for hitters, WHIP, FIP and WAR for pitchers.
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Old 04-23-2014, 07:18 PM   #9
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Thank you everybody for responding:-) It has been really helpful reading what stats people use. A few of them I have never really used before and will make sure to add them to my arsenal:-)
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Old 04-24-2014, 05:01 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PsychoBulk View Post
Favourites would be WOBA, OBP and WAR for hitters, WHIP, FIP and WAR for pitchers.
One caveat to using WAR for pitchers: because it's a counting stat, even a mediocre starter will tend to look better than the best reliever.
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Old 04-24-2014, 06:34 AM   #11
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Oh for sure, indeed, anything over 1 WAR for a reliever is very good.

Im far more into WHIP for relievers really.
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Old 04-24-2014, 09:16 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Déjà Bru View Post
And I am the traditionalist who likes to keep things simple. If I had only one statistic each for judging batters and pitchers, I would choose OBS (on base average + slugging) and WHIP (walks and hits per inning).
Quote:
Originally Posted by texasmame View Post
If forced for one each:

WHIP for pitchers
OBS for batters

With a peek at WAR for both.
I think you both mean OPS, no?

Man, I'd like to get FIP and wOBA on the front page of the player screen. I hate digging for those.
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Old 04-24-2014, 10:30 AM   #13
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Depends on the cirumstances, in my online leagues, where the GMs are usually cookie cutter WAR/VORP/BABIP guys, I look at K%, Extra base hit % and SB% for hitters, plus their Zone rating

For Starting Pitchers it is BB:K ratio for me, most GMs go for Stuff guys, I'll grab tthe control guys who will give up 30 solo HRs, I also look at WHIP, if they have a good BB:K and bad WHIP, it's their defense or ballpark failing them

For Relief pitchers, I look at HR/9 and IRS% If they don't give up the big long ball and strand runners, they have value to me

WAR is like having a full spice rack and dumping a teaspoon of each one into a stew, sure it includes everything but it doesn't work (I've been saying that for 10 years I think and slowly the baseball world is following that same opinion)

Last edited by Carlton; 04-24-2014 at 10:33 AM.
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Old 04-24-2014, 11:22 AM   #14
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The only metric in the game that truly addresses the overall value of a pitcher is FIP.
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Old 04-24-2014, 04:31 PM   #15
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So I went through the thread on compiled all of the various stats that people said that they used. My question now is what as an average, and good number for those stats. For example what is considered and Average OPS+ what is a Good OPS+?



Hitters:
wOBA (Avg - ) (Good - )
OPS+ (Avg - ) (Good - )
K% (Avg - ) (Good - )
BB% (Avg - ) (Good - )
OBS (Avg - ) (Good - )
WAR (Avg - ) (Good - )


Pitchers:
ERA+ (Avg - ) (Good - )
K/BB (Avg - ) (Good - )
K/9 (Avg - ) (Good - )
BB/9 (Avg - ) (Good - )
ERA (Avg - ) (Good - )
WHIP (Avg - ) (Good - )
IP/GS (Avg - ) (Good - )
FIP (Avg - ) (Good - )
WALK (Avg - ) (Good - )
Ks (Avg - ) (Good - )
XBHs AVE (Avg - ) (Good - )
BABIP (Avg - ) (Good - )

Defense:
ZR (Avg - ) (Good - )
EFF (Avg - ) (Good - )
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Old 04-24-2014, 06:38 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gRaider2001 View Post
So I went through the thread on compiled all of the various stats that people said that they used. My question now is what as an average, and good number for those stats. For example what is considered and Average OPS+ what is a Good OPS+?



Hitters:
wOBA (Avg - ) (Good - )
OPS+ (Avg - ) (Good - )
K% (Avg - ) (Good - )
BB% (Avg - ) (Good - )
OBS (Avg - ) (Good - )
WAR (Avg - ) (Good - )


Pitchers:
ERA+ (Avg - ) (Good - )
K/BB (Avg - ) (Good - )
K/9 (Avg - ) (Good - )
BB/9 (Avg - ) (Good - )
ERA (Avg - ) (Good - )
WHIP (Avg - ) (Good - )
IP/GS (Avg - ) (Good - )
FIP (Avg - ) (Good - )
WALK (Avg - ) (Good - )
Ks (Avg - ) (Good - )
XBHs AVE (Avg - ) (Good - )
BABIP (Avg - ) (Good - )

Defense:
ZR (Avg - ) (Good - )
EFF (Avg - ) (Good - )
Fangraphs is good for this. Here's the page for wOBA: wOBA | FanGraphs Sabermetrics Library
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Old 04-25-2014, 01:54 AM   #17
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Using the link that Bobble suggest I went and added the values that are considered excellent, great, average and poor for some of the statistics in this thread. I could not find some of them. If anybody knows some of the values please share and I will update the first post of this thread. Thanks:-)

Hitters:

wOBA:

Excellent - 0.400
Great - 0.370
Average - 0.320
Poor - 0.300

OPS

Excellent - 1.000
Great - 0.900
Average - 0.730
Poor - 0.600

ISO

Excellent - 0.250
Great - 0.200
Average - 0.145
Poor - 0.100

K%

Excellent - 10.0%
Great - 12.5%
Average - 18.5%
Poor - 25.0%

BB%

Excellent - 15.0%
Great - 12.5%
Average - 8.5%
Poor - 5.5%


OPS+ (Avg - ) (Good - )

OBS (Avg - ) (Good - )
WAR (Avg - ) (Good - )


Pitchers:

B]ERA[/B]

Excellent - 2.90
Great - 3.25
Average - 4.00
Poor - 4.50


ERA+ (Avg - ) (Good - )
K/BB (Avg - ) (Good - )
K/9 (Avg - ) (Good - )
BB/9 (Avg - ) (Good - )
ERA (Avg - ) (Good - )
WHIP

Excellent - 1.00
Great - 1.10
Average - 1.32
Poor 1.50


IP/GS (Avg - ) (Good - )
FIP

Excellent - 2.90
Great - 3.25
Above Average 3.75
Average - 4.00
Poor - 4.50


WALK (Avg - ) (Good - )
Ks (Avg - ) (Good - )
XBHs AVE (Avg - ) (Good - )

BABIP

Defense:
ZR (Avg - ) (Good - )
EFF (Avg - ) (Good - )
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Old 04-25-2014, 09:35 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by gRaider2001 View Post
So I went through the thread on compiled all of the various stats that people said that they used. My question now is what as an average, and good number for those stats. For example what is considered and Average OPS+ what is a Good OPS+?
If this is a league you are managing a team in, ignore OPS+
That is used mostly to compare Babe Ruth with Willie Mays to see which was more dominant compared to their league

OPS is fine to see power,eye, contact

What is a good OPS in your league? Look at ALL the players in your league, via statistics and sortable stats on the right tab, sort by overall OPS, if it's 30 pages to scroll through, anyone on page 1 through 14 has a good OPS
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Old 04-25-2014, 10:20 AM   #19
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There's more on that Fangraphs site. The K/9 and BB/9 are here: Strikeout and Walk Rates | FanGraphs Sabermetrics Library

The average BABIP for hitters is around .290 to .310.
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Old 04-25-2014, 10:31 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobble View Post
There's more on that Fangraphs site. The K/9 and BB/9 are here: Strikeout and Walk Rates | FanGraphs Sabermetrics Library

The average BABIP for hitters is around .290 to .310.
Thanks Booble, for sharing the links and info. I have updated the first post of the thread to reflect:-)
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