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Old 09-22-2018, 06:53 PM   #1
Toast
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Is there an AI difference when playing out game versus sim

I've noted a major difference how the AI uses player personnel in simmed games versus playing them out. In sim games the AI freely uses players to pinch hit and pinch run and defensively sub but in played out games this doesn't occur. The only player movement I've see in played out games involves relievers. The batting lineup and defensive line up always remains the same. This is true for many games I've played out. I wonder if OOTP is mainly a sim game with the addition of one on one play as being aside interest? I wonder whether something has to be clicked in the set up menu for more player movement to occur in played out games?

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Old 09-22-2018, 07:51 PM   #2
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No, but we know where this is going.
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Old 09-22-2018, 08:29 PM   #3
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No, but we know where this is going.
I don't

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Old 09-22-2018, 08:50 PM   #4
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I don't

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Old 09-22-2018, 09:13 PM   #5
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I don't

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That's because years back I questioned OOTP's end results and everyone fell to tears. It seems overly sensitive people still haven't recovered.

This question was why there doesn't seem to be the same player movement when playing out the games versus simming? In playing out games I never see player changes - pich hitters runners etc - except relievers. Does this have something to do with setting up the league menu?

"If you question they will come" ... from the the novel "Field of Screams"

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Old 09-22-2018, 09:44 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by Toast View Post
That's because years back I questioned OOTP's end results and everyone fell to tears. It seems overly sensitive people still haven't recovered.

This question was why there doesn't seem to be the same player movement when playing out the games versus simming? In playing out games I never see player changes - pich hitters runners etc - except relievers. Does this have something to do with setting up the league menu?

"If you question they will come" ... from the the novel "Field of Screams"

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So if you play out a game where the pitchers hit, the AI doesn't ever pinch hit for them?
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Old 09-22-2018, 10:40 PM   #7
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Answering your first question.... there is no difference between simming or playing out games.

Common sense tells us that programming two engines and having to test two engines would be well.............. stupid.
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Old 09-22-2018, 11:59 PM   #8
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I definitely see Pinch-Hitting occur for AI teams in played out games. I don't see as much as I'd like sometimes, and not nearly enough PR, but I definitely see changes.
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Old 09-23-2018, 01:05 AM   #9
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I definitely see Pinch-Hitting occur for AI teams in played out games. I don't see as much as I'd like sometimes, and not nearly enough PR, but I definitely see changes.
The team I'm managing is in the AL so pitchers obviously won't be pulled for a pinch hitter but other players in the batting order never seem to be pinch hit for run for? I agree with the individual saying the sim engine should be the same for both playing out the game and simming but still in my playing every third game for a 162 game schedule I've yet to see the AI use a pinch hitter or runner unless it is the result of an injury ... of course then this actually becomes a line up replacement. When I look at the sim results - box scores - I note opposing teams are using the total team personnel etc. There are plenty examples of pinch hitters and runners or defensive replacements ... especially for NL teams. I think I may have set up the game wrong or this AI is not programmed for games played out?

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Old 09-23-2018, 04:18 AM   #10
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There is no difference. None. Zero. Nada. Same engine. Same code. No difference. Did I mention there is no difference?
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Old 09-23-2018, 07:49 AM   #11
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I play out all my games and see PH all the time as well as PR. Here's a game from my fictional league that I played yesterday. I'm Boston the AI is Baltimore. Notice Morales pinch ran for the SS Victores. Also notice Murillo pinch hit for the 2B Morrison. It only took 1 game to shoot down your latest attempt at trolling so see ya.
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Old 09-23-2018, 10:32 AM   #12
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I play out every game and have for probably 5 OOTP versions now, so cannot say if there is any difference (“difference” would imply I know how the slimmed games work). However, for manually played games, I see the AI make just as many moves as you would expect IRL.

Two thoughts -
1. Are you playing current or historical? No question, there are more moves today than there were in times gone by. Recently, there was a posting on here where we were talking about the 1934 World Series. In that period, you might go a week or more without using more than a couple of pinch hitters.
2. AL vs. NL - I find there to be some difference here, but cannot honestly say if that applies as much IRL. Guess it’s an easy BR search, but my two favorite teams to manage seem to be BOS and SFG. When I manage in the NL (SFG), there is a lot of use of pinch hitters and tons of use of RPs. I find that to be less so when managing in the AL (BOS). Note, this could simply be perception as I have not kept any numbers to prove the point. Just seems that way. IRL, I really only watch the NL during the regular season (hard to watch a 4 hour AL softball game - sorry), and I do feel like OOTP fairly represents those games.
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Old 09-23-2018, 10:34 AM   #13
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Some teams are more aggressive than others. It also certainly varies with who is actually on the bench. I mean, if the team has nobody with speed on the bench, they're not going to pinch run for guys.
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Old 09-23-2018, 03:43 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by Markus Heinsohn View Post
There is no difference. None. Zero. Nada. Same engine. Same code. No difference. Did I mention there is no difference?
If you read closely I'm asking whether there is a set-up button that I haven't activated? I'm not getting any player movement playing out the game when I think the game situation warrants it ... like a team trailing by two runs with two runners on base late in the game and a power hitter remains on the bench while weak hitter is at the plate.Anyway, I think developer and people are way over the top when a sincerer question is asked?

By the way Marcus in your Portland e-mail response last week have you ever visited Vancouver BC? Whistler is only 2 hours north of it! lol

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Old 09-23-2018, 04:06 PM   #15
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the Major difference between AI and user is the person playing the game. we might handle things differently than the AI. I play it out almost exclusively. Sometimes I screw up and sometimes my gambles work. We tend to go on hunches while the AI has its own formulas.
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Old 09-23-2018, 04:09 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toast View Post
If you read closely I'm asking whether there is a set-up button that I haven't activated? I'm not getting any player movement playing out the game when I think the game situation warrants it ... like a team trailing by two runs with two runners on base late in the game and a power hitter remains on the bench while weak hitter is at the plate.Anyway, I think developer and people are way over the top when a sincerer question is asked?

By the way Marcus in your Portland e-mail response last week have you ever visited Vancouver BC? Whistler is only 2 hours north of it! lol

Thanatoast
Have you experimented with changing the strategy settings for your manager? You could always up his tendency for pinch hitting for position players and see if that makes a difference.
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Old 09-23-2018, 04:16 PM   #17
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fwiw, <laughs>, some madden games did sim games differently than how they are played out (stated simply)... so, even though it's not true here, it's not completely out in left field.

one year even had an option to use the newer 'slower' sim speed. whether that's madden or some pc game i don't recall anymore. if it was pc, it was early/mid 90's with sierra's front page sports football.

i think the random seed is generated only once per PA, though. that has an effect of some sort for sure vs every ball pitched. one is better reso for lack of better word at moment, but resulting averages of the greater whole could still come out looking the same.

edit: wanna make sure: 'laughs' is about my post and nothing else... piling on to this thread

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Old 09-23-2018, 05:24 PM   #18
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Have you experimented with changing the strategy settings for your manager? You could always up his tendency for pinch hitting for position players and see if that makes a difference.
Thanks David ... I referring to the AI and opposing teams.not my strategy settings.

I'll have to watch more closely when playing inter divisional games that are played in NL parks. My present sim is the Majors quick start 2018.

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Old 09-23-2018, 05:35 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by Markus Heinsohn View Post
There is no difference. None. Zero. Nada. Same engine. Same code. No difference. Did I mention there is no difference?
Toast, you are golden-brown and buttery-warm for having asked your question and receiving this type of rare, official no-bones-about-it response.

If the past is any indication, I figured that this quote from Markus would be a search item for me in the future. There used to be a thread/post subscription feature? I couldn't find it but instead, for the first time, I figured I would try a blog. This should work:
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Old 09-23-2018, 08:48 PM   #20
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Quote:
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Thanks David ... I referring to the AI and opposing teams.not my strategy settings.

I'll have to watch more closely when playing inter divisional games that are played in NL parks. My present sim is the Majors quick start 2018.

Thanatoast
Unless if you're in control of the substitutions and other options, there is no difference playing out a game vs simming it.
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