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Old 03-06-2002, 01:27 PM   #1
SoxWin
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Post Markus, please read

As has been mentioned on at least 2 other threads, Pierre doesn't yet have a copy of ootp as he's waiting for STB.

In all honesty, for the hours he's put in so far, he should get a free copy of the game. If you choose not to do this fair enough, just PM me and I'll buy him a copy myself. He!!, I've had enough good use out of his utilities that it's worth the $45 CDN or so it would cost.

I don't want to come off sounding like a jerk (though frequently I do) but I really don't think it's too much to ask that PLG not have to pay for the game.

Cheers

Rich
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Old 03-06-2002, 02:48 PM   #2
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Well, I don't really agree with you, but he should have been a beta tester after all he's done for OOTP.
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Old 03-06-2002, 02:57 PM   #3
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I guess that would have been an option but quite honestly, don't you think he's spent more then enough time helping this community?

Cheers

Rich

Edited to add, doesn't really matter he's set anyway

[ March 06, 2002: Message edited by: SoxWin ]</p>
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Old 03-07-2002, 05:45 AM   #4
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Even with a free copy, I will buy STB in store.
I like to have a copy on a CD.

A free copy will only helps to make utilities faster. But I think the community can wait couples of weeks more.

[ March 07, 2002: Message edited by: PLG ]

[ March 07, 2002: Message edited by: PLG ]</p>
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Old 03-07-2002, 08:10 AM   #5
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True, I was just thinking I'd help you out for my own selfish reasons

Cheers

Rich
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Old 03-07-2002, 08:20 AM   #6
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[quote]Originally posted by SoxWin:
<strong>True, I was just thinking I'd help you out for my own selfish reasons

Cheers

Rich</strong><hr></blockquote>

actually, handling pierre a free copy (not to mention naming him a beta tester if he's interested) is more of a style issue than anything else. whether he later keeps on updating his stuff is inconsequential. honestly, i see this as a lack of tact by the developers.
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Old 03-07-2002, 09:23 AM   #7
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Rich,

If you do this let me know Ill go half with you.

Mark
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Old 03-07-2002, 09:34 AM   #8
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[quote]Originally posted by bkurtz:
<strong>

actually, handling pierre a free copy (not to mention naming him a beta tester if he's interested) is more of a style issue than anything else. whether he later keeps on updating his stuff is inconsequential. honestly, i see this as a lack of tact by the developers.</strong><hr></blockquote>

I disagree with this opinion, as there have been a ton of members of the community who have provided a significant service to us, not just Pierre. By no means am I trying to diminish what Pierre himself has done. The Player Editor and CSV Reporter are the 2 utilities that I use most for OOTP3 and am very grateful for the amount of time and effort he has put into his programs. It's just a slippery slope when you start granting favors to some contributors and not others. Emotions get in the way, feelings get hurt, and it's just easier to not start down that path.

Having said that, Rich I would go in with you halfsies and contribute $15 US to get these V4 utilities started a little earlier.
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Old 03-07-2002, 09:40 AM   #9
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Done, we'll split it 3 ways. Do we need PLG's addy or anything else? I think we may, can't remember what it asked for when I registed with viatech. Stupid, stupid me

Cheers

Rich
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Old 03-07-2002, 09:40 AM   #10
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Hammer, I agree with you. If Markus would have given Pierre a free copy then every single person who made an addon would expect a free copy as well.

Edit- I really can spell

[ March 07, 2002: Message edited by: AK2KStang ]</p>
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Old 03-07-2002, 10:42 AM   #11
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[quote]Originally posted by Hammer755:
<strong>

I disagree with this opinion, as there have been a ton of members of the community who have provided a significant service to us, not just Pierre. By no means am I trying to diminish what Pierre himself has done. The Player Editor and CSV Reporter are the 2 utilities that I use most for OOTP3 and am very grateful for the amount of time and effort he has put into his programs. It's just a slippery slope when you start granting favors to some contributors and not others. Emotions get in the way, feelings get hurt, and it's just easier to not start down that path.

Having said that, Rich I would go in with you halfsies and contribute $15 US to get these V4 utilities started a little earlier.</strong><hr></blockquote>

i don't try to diminish the guys that put their time/effort to create add-ons either, but i think you're missing the fact that pierre has been creating utilities way back since ootp2 (draft and minor leagues utilities come to mind). utilities that not only added to the game but filled up tons of its holes. my point is that, now that ootp is a well-known product, it would have been a nice way to thank guys like pierre who put his time/effort back when ootp was basically an unknown among most of the current customers.
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Old 03-07-2002, 11:13 AM   #12
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[quote]Originally posted by bkurtz:
<strong>

i don't try to diminish the guys that put their time/effort to create add-ons either, but i think you're missing the fact that pierre has been creating utilities way back since ootp2 (draft and minor leagues utilities come to mind). utilities that not only added to the game but filled up tons of its holes. my point is that, now that ootp is a well-known product, it would have been a nice way to thank guys like pierre who put his time/effort back when ootp was basically an unknown among most of the current customers.</strong><hr></blockquote>

I see what you're saying, and I agree .

[quote]Originally posted by SoxWin:
<strong>Done, we'll split it 3 ways. Do we need PLG's addy or anything else? I think we may, can't remember what it asked for when I registed with viatech. Stupid, stupid me

Cheers

Rich</strong><hr></blockquote>

Rich,

Let me know how to send the money to you, PayPal, check, etc. BTW, Mark, I could probably cover your share as well if you "make sure" my Surf win the Cup this weekend .

[ March 07, 2002: Message edited by: Hammer755 ]</p>
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Old 03-07-2002, 11:28 AM   #13
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Also, OOTP (the game, the company) benefits from the existance of these tools,roster sets, face packs, etc which people put a lot of time into- they surely have had some positive effect on the number of copies of OOTP sold.
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Old 03-07-2002, 12:14 PM   #14
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Nice gestures, and lots of warm fuzzy feelings flying around in this thread, but you're treading on dangerous ground. Should we make a list of ALL the users who have made great utilities, addons, roster sets, logo sets, OOTP websites, been beta testers, written reviews, expansion tutorials etc, no matter how big or how small? If somebody puts together a face pack with 1200 photos should he get a free copy of the game, but a guy who puts together a face pack with 400 photos only get a $10 contribution towards a free game?

No matter how many great utilities Pierre has contributed, you've got to take into account that a guy who put together his Toledo Mudhens face pack might cry foul because he also thinks he should get a free copy of the game.

This is not taking away from Pierre's fantastic contribution, but to be perfectly honest, I'd be surprised if any of the users in the OOTP community really expect any financial reward for the time they've spent helping make this game and community what it is today.
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Old 03-07-2002, 12:21 PM   #15
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good point. you have to draw the line somewhere.
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Old 03-07-2002, 12:47 PM   #16
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Yes you do have to draw the line somewhere and in my case I feel that this is the right thing for me to do. I've used Pierre's utilities to death ever since V2 and as far as I'm concerned it's the least I could do for the guy. If he lived anywhere close to me I'd take him out for a beer or 3 which is basically the same as throwing in the $10US it's going to cost me to do this.

The facepacks/rosters and such are great and I love the fact they're free and appreciate 100% the efforts of Killer/Rolen and others. That said, if I really felt like it, I could do these things myself. I CANNOT do what PLG has done as I have 0 knowledge of programming.

I respect your opinions Aussie but I'm not suggesting anyone buy anything for anybody, I just know what I'm going to do. The utilities PLG has made could have been built right into OOTP like the ingame player editor but weren't. Therefore, this saved Markus time when coding the game. He's not allowed to use MLB player/team names so other guys create roster sets, this is AWESOME (kudos once again guys) but saved Markus nothing in terms of time.

I'm not asking anyone to chip in anything but if Mark and Hammer want to, great. I'm also not advocating paying add-on, utility makers as a rule since the $ they would receive wouldn't make up for the headaches of everyone complaining of every little bug if they paid even a couple of bucks for these things.

I think of it as giving a gift to a friend or paying back a favor. Your mileage may vary.

Cheers

Rich

ps, not to belittle Rolen's contributions at all, but guess who's player editor he's used to make the great roster set we all enjoy so much????
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Old 03-07-2002, 12:56 PM   #17
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There is a parallel case.

It appears that 3D0 worked with Eric "DangerZ" Pilote, world's greatest designer of computer baseball game editors, in order to ensure that a High Heat 2003-compatible of DangerZ's totally killer editor would be available on the day that HH 2003 is released.

Smart move on their part, I think. If you haven't see DangerZ's High Heat editor, download a copy - even if you will never play High heat - and see what an editor can look like and do. You will be AMAZED. DangerZ rules.

HH may never have knocked my socks off, but DangerZ's editors always have.

I wonder what it would take to get him to write an OOTP editor?
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Old 03-07-2002, 01:39 PM   #18
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Danger Z is unreal!

Programming has always facinated me, even though I am in the Harware field. I remember writing programs in BASIC on my Commodore 64.

The work these utility makers do is greatly appreciated and it's a nice gesture on your part Soxwin, kudos to you. I really mean that.


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Old 03-07-2002, 02:02 PM   #19
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Thanks Todd, my only problem is I believe I need his address or something to register. Can I just call viatech and explain what I'd like to do and they can hook me up? I appreciate the work PLG has done but I don't want to give him my CC # so he can use it to buy the license

Cheers

Rich
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Old 03-07-2002, 02:24 PM   #20
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[quote]Originally posted by Malleus Dei:
<strong>There is a parallel case.

It appears that 3D0 worked with Eric "DangerZ" Pilote, world's greatest designer of computer baseball game editors, in order to ensure that a High Heat 2003-compatible of DangerZ's totally killer editor would be available on the day that HH 2003 is released.

Smart move on their part, I think. If you haven't see DangerZ's High Heat editor, download a copy - even if you will never play High heat - and see what an editor can look like and do. You will be AMAZED. DangerZ rules.

HH may never have knocked my socks off, but DangerZ's editors always have.

I wonder what it would take to get him to write an OOTP editor?</strong><hr></blockquote>

Eric was working to get the game included as part of HH; this fell through. His next option is going to be to sell the editor, but needs permission from 3do to do this, and that hasn't happened yet either.

at any rate, the new version of the editor is not going to be free, if it's available at all. not sure what argument this makes; I'll leave that for others.
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