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Old 01-13-2017, 12:31 AM   #1
Curve Ball Dave
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Historical Names And Numbers

I'd like to think my request is a modest one. I love to play with historical players, nothing like doing a big fantasy draft of players from all eras mixed together. It's fun and unpredictable.

But...

PLEASE get rid of the middle initials in the player names. I don't need "Johnny L. Bench" in my draft pool. "Johnny Bench" will do. And while we're at it, he wore #5 not #97. PLEASE do something about the jersey numbers so they're either what number the player wore most of his career or at least close to it. I know jersey numbers didn't become a thing until the late 20s, but that doesn't mean Christy Mathewson has to be #82.

I eventually clean all of this up as I go along in my universe. Doing it all at once would be far too time consuming. I hope these are reasonable requests and can be implemented.
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Old 01-13-2017, 07:56 AM   #2
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FYI:
Uniform numbers are keyed to players by year as the same player could have a different number every year. Since you are mixing eras you are advertently trashing the uniform number yourownself.

Middle initials only appear when there is more than one player with the same first/last name. It is used to tell them apart.
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Old 01-13-2017, 09:07 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spritze View Post
Middle initials only appear when there is more than one player with the same first/last name. It is used to tell them apart.
It is a little jarring to see the initials on guys not know for using them.

In a case like the above, might it not make sense to keep the best known of the players free of initials and to only add the initials to any other less well known players with the same name?

I'd advocate the same in the case of Sr and Jr's. Wouldn't it make sense to have Ken Griffey Sr be just plain old Ken Griffey, since for 99% of his career, that's what he was?
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Old 01-13-2017, 10:44 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spritze View Post
FYI:
Uniform numbers are keyed to players by year as the same player could have a different number every year. Since you are mixing eras you are advertently trashing the uniform number yourownself.
I'm using the feature that allows the player to use historical players when creating a historical league. It's not me that "trashing" the numbers, but the program.
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Old 01-13-2017, 11:56 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by Lukas Berger View Post
It is a little jarring to see the initials on guys not know for using them.

In a case like the above, might it not make sense to keep the best known of the players free of initials and to only add the initials to any other less well known players with the same name?

I'd advocate the same in the case of Sr and Jr's. Wouldn't it make sense to have Ken Griffey Sr be just plain old Ken Griffey, since for 99% of his career, that's what he was?
We just use whatever BBref uses. There is not enough time to change all this sort of stuff on a yearly basis. Plus who chooses the well knownness of a player? Which Bob Smith is it?
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Old 01-13-2017, 12:08 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by Spritze View Post
We just use whatever BBref uses. There is not enough time to change all this sort of stuff on a yearly basis. Plus who chooses the well knownness of a player? Which Bob Smith is it?
BBref doesn't use Johnny L. Bench or Peter Rose Sr though f.e.

Pete Rose Stats | Baseball-Reference.com

Johnny Bench Stats | Baseball-Reference.com
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Old 01-13-2017, 01:56 PM   #7
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We don't add them.

OOTP was Lahman based until last year. Perhaps he does?
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Old 01-13-2017, 05:22 PM   #8
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We just use whatever BBref uses. There is not enough time to change all this sort of stuff on a yearly basis. Plus who chooses the well knownness of a player? Which Bob Smith is it?


I get rid of the middle initials myself and many nicknamed player names that Lahman or BBRef use. Their database is what it is and I understand why.

The solution might be to just get rid of middle initials. And the way to tell tell Bob Smith from Bob Smith would be by birthplace or picture, just like in real life.

I am hopeful the powers that be move on your historical birthplace spreadsheet. That seems fixable.

Thanks for all your hard work!




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Old 01-14-2017, 08:33 AM   #9
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I just checked and there is no Johnny L Bench in any form in historical as either a MLB or a MiLB player.

What mode are you discussing that contains this player? Standard, Historical, Fictional, Quick, Quack, Quork?

The different modes use completely different Master player files.
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Old 01-14-2017, 11:50 AM   #10
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I just checked and there is no Johnny L Bench in any form in historical as either a MLB or a MiLB player.

What mode are you discussing that contains this player? Standard, Historical, Fictional, Quick, Quack, Quork?

The different modes use completely different Master player files.
In this case his was the first name that came into mind. If there's no actual "Johnny L. Bench", that's fine. It was a "for instance".

To give a real example, Randy D. Johnson. There's only one 6'11" left handed pitcher who goes by that name, and only one with the nickname "Big Unit".

Or Frank E. Thomas. There's only one "Big Hurt" who played from '91-2000 and is in the HOF. I can tell him apart from the guy who played in the 60s.

If you're using real historical players, the "View Historical Stats" will also tell you which player is in question.

I get why you include the middle initials, I'm not questioning your good intentions. But they aren't really necessary.

As for the jersey numbers, as I said I'm using a feature in the game to use historical players from different eras. The game itself, not the user, is jumbling the uniform numbers so if a player like me wants guys to have the jersey numbers they made famous, or at least something close to it, all of these players have to manually edited.
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Old 01-14-2017, 12:12 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by Curve Ball Dave View Post
I get why you include the middle initials, I'm not questioning your good intentions. But they aren't really necessary.
I have to disagree, in some cases, they are necessary.

At least if two guys have the exact same name, at least one needs to have the initials for the purpose of photos/facegens because otherwise they'll both share a photo or face.

What I'm advocating is not getting rid or initials entirely, because of the above that's not possible. But we can lose them for the more famous players, and only use them for the less well known of the players that share names. If two players are similar in stature, like Bob Smiths, then initials for both would make sense.

Obviously, making this happen would require work, and Spritze has his hands full, but it's something to consider for the future.
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Old 01-14-2017, 12:30 PM   #12
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Quote:
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What I'm advocating is not getting rid or initials entirely, because of the above that's not possible. But we can lose them for the more famous players, and only use them for the less well known of the players that share names. If two players are similar in stature, like Bob Smiths, then initials for both would make sense.
I understand and meeting halfway is fine. To use the Randy Johnson example, the other two were fringe utility infielders from the early 1980s. If their initials are included to tell them apart, ok. But the Randy Johnson really doesn't need it.
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Old 01-14-2017, 12:43 PM   #13
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I understand and meeting halfway is fine. To use the Randy Johnson example, the other two were fringe utility infielders from the early 1980s. If their initials are included to tell them apart, ok. But the Randy Johnson really doesn't need it.
Right, I agree completely!
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Old 01-14-2017, 02:51 PM   #14
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With each OOTP mode having its own data it is probably too uncoordinational at the moment to do this.

If the various OOTP modes ever share off one big pile of data it could work via a data warehouse that includes photos and facegens and stats and player demographics and supermodels. Then changing a Randy D. Johnson to Randy Johnson could be workable via cascading label updates and unique identifiers. The anarchistic way OOTP is currently organized keeps this from being viable. For now there already is a Randy Johnson so both that player and the D one would need to change names. Everywhere.
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Old 01-14-2017, 03:38 PM   #15
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I have to disagree, in some cases, they are necessary.

At least if two guys have the exact same name, at least one needs to have the initials for the purpose of photos/facegens because otherwise they'll both share a photo or face.

What I'm advocating is not getting rid or initials entirely, because of the above that's not possible. But we can lose them for the more famous players, and only use them for the less well known of the players that share names. If two players are similar in stature, like Bob Smiths, then initials for both would make sense.

Obviously, making this happen would require work, and Spritze has his hands full, but it's something to consider for the future.
As I recall, facegen doesn't work for guys with middle initials, Jr/Sr, etc. I have to manually assign the facegen. Not a big deal, but FYI.
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Old 01-16-2017, 02:11 AM   #16
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As I recall, facegen doesn't work for guys with middle initials, Jr/Sr, etc. I have to manually assign the facegen. Not a big deal, but FYI.
They'll work, but they have to be named correctly. I'd guess the issue is that whoever deals with keeping/updating the facegens in the mods doesn't update them to reflect the changes in the db each year. But if someone did that, there's no reason why the middle initials, Jr's, Sr's etc should't load correctly.
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