Still need to fix IW logic

JoeGoNets · 06-07-2009, 10:51 PM

I was down 8-4 in the bottom of the eighth, had a runner on second with no outs. My left hand hitter got walked by the AI's right handed pitcher to face a slightly weaker righty.

Needless to say that part of me was delighted and part of me was disappointed.

I came back to win 11-8.

This could use fixing, though I grant it may not be easy. It is hard to say "never" with regard to intentional walks, but I think it's safe to say that the computer should never issue an IW when it is ahead by more than 3 runs and the guy being walked represents neither the tying run nor the winning run. Let him a hit a homer if he has to, since he is neither the tying run, nor the winning run.

JoeGoNets · 06-08-2009, 08:02 AM

And, it is easy to point out issues but harder to be part of a solution. If I may be so bold, I would be happy to work (for free!) with a small group of you to come up with an algorithm for the AI to use for IWs, based on score, runners, quality of batter at plate, quality of next batter, potential PHs on the bench, etc. I am a long time baseball and game enthusiast, familiar with VORP, runs created, etc., but by no means up on all the latest research.

I'll note that Walter Alston was quite successful giving out about 10 IWs a year, I believe, so I think with IWs, less may be more. They tend to bite you in a sensitive area.

andymac · 06-08-2009, 08:15 AM

I would agree that IW's likely still need tweaking, but it is pretty tough to blame 7 runs on 1 IW.

JoeGoNets · 06-08-2009, 08:24 AM

Nor did I mean to.

TribeFanInNC · 06-08-2009, 08:40 AM

I will reopen BZ 829 to address this specific logic (late IBB when batter is not tying or winning run). I can't promise Markus will fix this right away, but maybe eventually.

Can a mod move this to tech support?

JoeGoNets · 06-08-2009, 09:00 AM

Thanks Tribe Fan. If perhaps that one issue could be fixed (hitting team behind in the game, batter being walked, batter not the tying or winning run) that would be good. I am not sure the answer should be limited to "late" in the game (I think I would never issue an IW up, say, three runs with one guy on base) but perhaps I'm too parsimonius with my IWs.

P.S. Tribe only behind by 7 games -- it ain't over. I hope you have been to Jacobs Field--my favorite park.

TribeFanInNC · 06-08-2009, 09:44 AM

Yeah, you are probably right, but we'll take this one step at a time. There are at least examples of times when you might not pitch to a guy early in the game (walk the 8th guy to get to the pitcher, Barry Bonds, etc...). Late in the game though is definitely a no-no.

Yes, I lived in Columbus, OH in the 90s for the period when the Indians were good. We went to the Jake a couple times a year. I caught a Paul Molitor HR in the standing room only area down the left field line once (silly me, I threw it back

). I haven't been a few years though.

TribeFanInNC · 06-22-2009, 08:50 AM

FYI - I followed up on this and Markus said it was a valid use of an intentional walk and at least one beta member supported him. This is consistent with what he said in the OOTP9 beta on the subject as well. Therefore, it is officially a feature, not a bug.

nsorens · 07-08-2009, 02:54 AM

What would be interesting is tracking results of deciding to IW or not IW in identical situations. By simulating the same situation hundreds of thousands of times, you could definitely say whether it's a good decision to IW in a specific case.

06-07-2009, 10:51 PM	#1 (permalink)
JoeGoNets Minors (Single A) Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 59 Thanks: 1 Thanked 0x in 0 posts	Still need to fix IW logic I was down 8-4 in the bottom of the eighth, had a runner on second with no outs. My left hand hitter got walked by the AI's right handed pitcher to face a slightly weaker righty. Needless to say that part of me was delighted and part of me was disappointed. I came back to win 11-8. This could use fixing, though I grant it may not be easy. It is hard to say "never" with regard to intentional walks, but I think it's safe to say that the computer should never issue an IW when it is ahead by more than 3 runs and the guy being walked represents neither the tying run nor the winning run. Let him a hit a homer if he has to, since he is neither the tying run, nor the winning run.

06-08-2009, 08:15 AM	#3 (permalink)
andymac Hall Of Famer Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Effingham, IL Posts: 5,698 Thanks: 4 Thanked 16x in 12 posts	I would agree that IW's likely still need tweaking, but it is pretty tough to blame 7 runs on 1 IW. __________________ June Madness: Links FTB: andymac

06-08-2009, 08:40 AM	#5 (permalink)
TribeFanInNC Hall Of Famer Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 2,498 Thanks: 86 Thanked 253x in 204 posts	I will reopen BZ 829 to address this specific logic (late IBB when batter is not tying or winning run). I can't promise Markus will fix this right away, but maybe eventually. Can a mod move this to tech support? __________________ PEBA - Duluth Warriors

06-08-2009, 09:44 AM	#7 (permalink)
TribeFanInNC Hall Of Famer Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 2,498 Thanks: 86 Thanked 253x in 204 posts	Yeah, you are probably right, but we'll take this one step at a time. There are at least examples of times when you might not pitch to a guy early in the game (walk the 8th guy to get to the pitcher, Barry Bonds, etc...). Late in the game though is definitely a no-no. Yes, I lived in Columbus, OH in the 90s for the period when the Indians were good. We went to the Jake a couple times a year. I caught a Paul Molitor HR in the standing room only area down the left field line once (silly me, I threw it back ). I haven't been a few years though. __________________ PEBA - Duluth Warriors

06-22-2009, 08:50 AM	#8 (permalink)
TribeFanInNC Hall Of Famer Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 2,498 Thanks: 86 Thanked 253x in 204 posts	FYI - I followed up on this and Markus said it was a valid use of an intentional walk and at least one beta member supported him. This is consistent with what he said in the OOTP9 beta on the subject as well. Therefore, it is officially a feature, not a bug. __________________ PEBA - Duluth Warriors

06-08-2009, 08:02 AM	#2 (permalink)
JoeGoNets Minors (Single A) Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 59 Thanks: 1 Thanked 0x in 0 posts	And, it is easy to point out issues but harder to be part of a solution. If I may be so bold, I would be happy to work (for free!) with a small group of you to come up with an algorithm for the AI to use for IWs, based on score, runners, quality of batter at plate, quality of next batter, potential PHs on the bench, etc. I am a long time baseball and game enthusiast, familiar with VORP, runs created, etc., but by no means up on all the latest research. I'll note that Walter Alston was quite successful giving out about 10 IWs a year, I believe, so I think with IWs, less may be more. They tend to bite you in a sensitive area.

06-08-2009, 08:24 AM	#4 (permalink)
JoeGoNets Minors (Single A) Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 59 Thanks: 1 Thanked 0x in 0 posts	Nor did I mean to.

06-08-2009, 09:00 AM	#6 (permalink)
JoeGoNets Minors (Single A) Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 59 Thanks: 1 Thanked 0x in 0 posts	Thanks Tribe Fan. If perhaps that one issue could be fixed (hitting team behind in the game, batter being walked, batter not the tying or winning run) that would be good. I am not sure the answer should be limited to "late" in the game (I think I would never issue an IW up, say, three runs with one guy on base) but perhaps I'm too parsimonius with my IWs. P.S. Tribe only behind by 7 games -- it ain't over. I hope you have been to Jacobs Field--my favorite park.

07-08-2009, 02:54 AM	#9 (permalink)
nsorens Minors (Rookie Ball) Join Date: Apr 2003 Posts: 25 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0x in 0 posts	What would be interesting is tracking results of deciding to IW or not IW in identical situations. By simulating the same situation hundreds of thousands of times, you could definitely say whether it's a good decision to IW in a specific case.

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