Training module

[zerozero31]

what i'd really like to see is a more worked-out training/player improvement model.

having come from the Football Manager world, i'm used to hiring in coaches, assigning them to teams (and even players) and creating bespoke training programs. I can actually see players improving throughout the season(s) and have had players coming through from the youth teams to the first team.

With OOTP12, I have, well ... what do I have? The Minors, but even there i dont see much improvement in players as the weeks and months go on. I'm actually wondering why I have them, seeing as they dont really contribute very much, other than serving as a dumping ground for the crappier players on my roster.

In my current game (as the Orioles) I've ditched two of my affiliates because they were full of payers with batting/pitching ratings that on average didn't get beyond 4, with potential ratings stuck at 20. Total waste of space in other words, so off they went. I only have AAA, AA and two A's left now. And i'll probably ditch most of those as well :-)

And yes, I know, the Orioles farm system is a problem in real life, but even checking up on the Cardinals, Rangers, Yankees and Red Sox minor affiliates in OOTP, the players there don't really fare much better either.

So: training. More of it, and more ability to be involved in developing (younger) players.

[Chicagofan76]

Originally Posted by zerozero31

what i'd really like to see is a more worked-out training/player improvement model.

having come from the Football Manager world, i'm used to hiring in coaches, assigning them to teams (and even players) and creating bespoke training programs. I can actually see players improving throughout the season(s) and have had players coming through from the youth teams to the first team.

With OOTP12, I have, well ... what do I have? The Minors, but even there i dont see much improvement in players as the weeks and months go on. I'm actually wondering why I have them, seeing as they dont really contribute very much, other than serving as a dumping ground for the crappier players on my roster.

In my current game (as the Orioles) I've ditched two of my affiliates because they were full of payers with batting/pitching ratings that on average didn't get beyond 4, with potential ratings stuck at 20. Total waste of space in other words, so off they went. I only have AAA, AA and two A's left now. And i'll probably ditch most of those as well :-)

And yes, I know, the Orioles farm system is a problem in real life, but even checking up on the Cardinals, Rangers, Yankees and Red Sox minor affiliates in OOTP, the players there don't really fare much better either.

So: training. More of it, and more ability to be involved in developing (younger) players.

OOTP is fine with the coaching system they have since this is baseball not football. Either version.

[zerozero31]

Whether it's baseball or football is neither here not there, my point is that I'd like to see more involvement with training a player, or groups of players so that you can develop particular pitches, or running speed, catching ability etc.

For example: Say I have a really good hitter, only he's as slow as Christmas, with all the mobility of a supertanker. I'd like to train him in such a way that he improves his running speed. Right now I can't do this, and this is what I'd like: more control and input over player development.

[RchW]

Originally Posted by zerozero31

Whether it's baseball or football is neither here not there, my point is that I'd like to see more involvement with training a player, or groups of players so that you can develop particular pitches, or running speed, catching ability etc.

For example: Say I have a really good hitter, only he's as slow as Christmas, with all the mobility of a supertanker. I'd like to train him in such a way that he improves his running speed. Right now I can't do this, and this is what I'd like: more control and input over player development.

In baseball a very good hitter can make it to the highest level with poor running speed. It would be unrealistic never mind a waste of time for example to attempt to train Brett Wallace to be a faster runner. Now if we talk about things like bat speed, pitch recognition, footwork at 1B, better glove work on throws in the dirt, better, more efficient baserunning etc., those are skills that can be developed. Inherent attributes such as speed are rarely changeable in adults.

[zerozero31]

... jings. OK, nitpicking bad examples aside, I'd like to see something like this in the next version.

[Chicagofan76]

Originally Posted by zerozero31

... jings. OK, nitpicking bad examples aside, I'd like to see something like this in the next version.

Could the current coaches such as Batting & Pitching coach be tweaked to have more on an impact? Sure. But this isnt NFL were you have a Line Coach a Linebackers Coach a WR's Coach. Charlie Lau and Leo Mazzone are considered 2 of the best instructors all time. I have seen good coaches have an impact if ever so slight on my minor leaguers while the ML equivalent tanks when it come to teaching. But I dont want to see OOTP turn into Madden where you have drills to improve certain players in categories such s hands, speed, defense, etc.

[zerozero31]

Agreed, not drills, that's awful. No, something like this from FM.

http://images.brighthub.com/d5/f/d5f...e068_large.jpg

Per player, per coach, per skill you can define areas to work on to improve the players. This happens in real life too, it's just not simulated very well in OOTP (imho).

[RchW]

Originally Posted by zerozero31

... jings. OK, nitpicking bad examples aside, I'd like to see something like this in the next version.

Point out the nitpicking to me please. I feel that being able to change core attributes like speed and say power would be a step towards an arcade type of game. Certainly not desirable in a baseball simulator.

I'm not against the idea, properly applied, but the FM model would not be it IMO.

[zerozero31]

Originally Posted by RchW

Point out the nitpicking to me please. I feel that being able to change core attributes like speed and say power would be a step towards an arcade type of game. Certainly not desirable in a baseball simulator.

I'm not against the idea, properly applied, but the FM model would not be it IMO.

Agreed, it's important to stay within the spirit of the game. So nothing graphic. If anyone out there remembers the good 'ole days of computing and "Daley Thompson's Decathlon", wherein you had to waggle the joystick really hard in order to make the guy run faster, fear not, that's not what i want either.

The FM model is slider based (like the strategy model in OOTP12), so it wouldn't be anything new to OOTP'ers. You wouldn't directly be modifying core attributes either (you could just hack the DB for that) but rather you'd set up a training program that works on the attribute(s) you want to improve. Depending on the trainers attributes, the personality of the player involved and the amount of time spent on that particular training, the player would improve his attributes. Note that in FM, the amount and type of training also has effect on other attributes, so it's always a case of carefully balancing and monitoring the training as time goes on.

And fek it, if the guy still stinks after all that training there's always the Minors.

I feel it would add another level of detail (warning: sarcasm) because God knows we could use more detail in OOTP ;-)

As a veteran FM player it's a model that has evolved over the years and now produces excellent results though, of course, your mileage may vary.

[urbanlife]

For me, I would just like to see there be an improvement in how training works, whether it be having a coach focus on certain players to get them to improve their skills faster or learn a new pitch. I have always felt the game's connection to the coaches seems to be a bit lacking, where it almost feels like they aren't all that important to the team.

[zerozero31]

Originally Posted by urbanlife

I have always felt the game's connection to the coaches seems to be a bit lacking, where it almost feels like they aren't all that important to the team.

@urbanlife: spot on, couldn't have said it better if I tried.