My Suggestion is to Get Rid of Most Realism Issues and Bugs Before Adding Frills

[simcrazy]

Here is a list of what I see to be realism problems and/or bugs. Certainly up for debate, but the way I play, I want my OOTP world to be as close to the real world as possible. I think OOTP is a great game with plenty of frills and don't need any more before the realism issues are fixed. Markus has indicated that some of these are already fixed in OOTP 13, so I am keeping them here so he can let us know the great improvements that are definitely going to be made :

• If a defensive player or pitcher gets injured on the last pitch of a half inning, you must immediately replace him. In real life, you wouldn’t have to identify the replacement until the next inning where the defensive player or pitcher is required. I HATE this. Sometimes I put in a pitcher and he doesn't even pitch. Or I have to make a decision before I would have to normally and then the next half inning changes my decision so I waste a player.
• Cannot put the DH in the field.
• If there are two pinch runners in a half inning, and one is for the DH, the runner pinch running for the DH is allowed to assume a defensive position. This should not be allowed.
• It is possible to take out a pitcher before he has completed an at-bat. This is a deviation from reality, as this is only allowed in real life in the case of injury. Markus told me this was fixed, but it is not. I just tried it and was allowed to do it.
• The second pinch runner in a half inning is recorded in the box score as a pinch hitter, not a pinch runner as would be correct. Also, a pinch hitter or pinch runner for a DH is not recorded as a pinch hitter or pinch runner.
• When there are runners on base, the bunt for a hit option is not available. There is a difference between a sacrifice bunt and a bunt for a hit in the bunter's technique.
• Minor league managers don't make nearly as much money in real life ($20k-$60k) as they do in OOTP ($80k-$300k+)
• Too many players, and too many good players, are placed on waivers. This happens in some leagues and not in others and it's hard to understand what settings cause it to happen.
• When a player is optioned down, he can't be recalled until 10 days have passed. However, he can be recalled sooner than that if a player on the major league roster is placed on the disabled list. In OOTP you can recall him without an injury at the MLB level.
• The game sims by at bat and not by pitch. This is illustrated by the take pitch issue, where if you use the take pitch feature (which I love! and is used in real life all the time) until two strikes you get unrealistic results - high walks without high corresponding strikeouts. In other words, there is no disadvantage to going down 0-2, which also affects base stealing strategy.
• Passed balls and wild pitches seem to occur more frequently with a man on third base.
• I know work has been done and progress realized in this category, but: man on 3rd, 1 out, pitching team up 4-0 in the bottom of the 7th and I get intentionally walked. This would never happen. It's better than OOTP 10, but unrealistic intentional walks are still issued occasionally.
• Injured players cannot be replaced on the playoff roster.
• Short relievers, who are not stretched out, can pitch too long and too effectively in a spot start.
• Players on rehab assignments who suffer set backs are forced to be released.

I would love input mainly on whether these are accurate observations or not. Importance is a whole other conversation, but I would definitely like to see more alignment with real life baseball before frills are added.

[joefromchicago]

Originally Posted by simcrazy

If a defensive player or pitcher gets injured on the last pitch of a half inning, you must immediately replace him. In real life, you wouldn’t have to identify the replacement until the next inning where the defensive player or pitcher is required. I HATE this. Sometimes I put in a pitcher and he doesn't even pitch. Or I have to make a decision before I would have to normally and then the next half inning changes my decision so I waste a player.

Agreed. I've run into the situation where a pitcher is injured on the last pitch in the top of the ninth, is replaced, and then the home team wins the game in the bottom of the ninth. The replacement pitcher gets the win, even though he never even appeared on the field, let alone threw a pitch.

Originally Posted by simcrazy

Cannot put the DH in the field.

Not a big deal for me, since I never play with the DH, but I understand that it's important for some.

Originally Posted by simcrazy

Minor league managers don't make nearly as much money in real life ($20k-$60k) as they do in OOTP ($80k-$300k+)

Well, minor league teams don't have only three coaches, either. There's a certain amount of abstraction here.

Originally Posted by simcrazy

Too many players, and too many good players, are placed on waivers. This happens in some leagues and not in others and it's hard to understand what settings cause it to happen.

I agree.

Originally Posted by simcrazy

When a player is optioned down, he can't be recalled until 10 days have passed. However, he can be recalled sooner than that if a player on the major league roster is placed on the disabled list. In OOTP you can recall him without an injury at the MLB level.

I don't think I've ever noticed this, but then I don't have my players going back-and-forth from the major-league roster to the minors on a constant basis.

Originally Posted by simcrazy

Injured players cannot be replaced on the playoff roster.

Not sure what the complaint is here. Are you saying that injured players can't be replaced once the playoffs have started?

Originally Posted by simcrazy

Players on rehab assignments who suffer set backs are forced to be released.

I'm not sure I understand this, but then I rarely use rehab assignments.

I can't comment on the other suggested changes, as I don't play out my games.

[Biggio509]

Why repost the same list that Markus has responded to telling what has been fixed and what will be fixed in 13?

[Biggio509]

Have any of these realism problems been fixed?

Have any of these realism problems been fixed?

In case you missed it.

"Hey guys,

let me respond to a few open issues:

#If a defensive player or pitcher gets injured on the last pitch of a half inning, you must immediately replace him. In real life, you wouldn’t have to identify the replacement until the next inning where the defensive player or pitcher is required.

-> Known issue, however this happens so rarely and unfortunately is so very hard to 'fix' that I haven't bothered about it yet.

#Spring training games are not realistic – only guys from the 40 man roster appear to be used.

-> That is a design decision and simplifies spring training. Handling non-roster invitees and extended spring rosters would be a PITA interface-wise and would also be a challenge for the AI. Hence the decision to handle it the way it is, which works fine IMO.

#Cannot put the DH in the field.

-> This is fixed in OOTP 13.

#If there are two pinch runners in a half inning, and one is for the DH, the runner pinch running for the DH is allowed to assume a defensive position. This should not be allowed.

-> Fixed in OOTP 13.

#It is possible to take out a pitcher before he has completed an at-bat. This is a deviation from reality, as this is only allowed in real life in the case of injury.

-> No, this was fixed a long time ago.

#The second pinch runner in a half inning is recorded in the box score as a pinch hitter, not a pinch runner as would be correct.

-> Works fine here, could not reproduce this in OOTP 13, so probably already fixed or wasn't an issue to begin with.

#When there are runners on base, the bunt for a hit option is not available.
-> Then use the sac bunt function, there is no difference really.

Cheers,
Markus"

[simcrazy]

Originally Posted by Biggio509

Why repost the same list that Markus has responded to telling what has been fixed and what will be fixed in 13?

(1) It is not the same list. This list is more comprehensive and I also took out an issue.

(2) Markus answered one of the questions incorrectly (the one about taking out a pitcher before he has completed an at bat), so I wanted him to know that it is still an issue so he can address if he wants/can.

[simcrazy]

Originally Posted by joefromchicago

Agreed. I've run into the situation where a pitcher is injured on the last pitch in the top of the ninth, is replaced, and then the home team wins the game in the bottom of the ninth. The replacement pitcher gets the win, even though he never even appeared on the field, let alone threw a pitch.


Not a big deal for me, since I never play with the DH, but I understand that it's important for some.


Well, minor league teams don't have only three coaches, either. There's a certain amount of abstraction here.


I agree.


I don't think I've ever noticed this, but then I don't have my players going back-and-forth from the major-league roster to the minors on a constant basis.


Not sure what the complaint is here. Are you saying that injured players can't be replaced once the playoffs have started?


I'm not sure I understand this, but then I rarely use rehab assignments.

I can't comment on the other suggested changes, as I don't play out my games.

Sorry - I don't know how to break up the post as you did, but I responded in order:

Thanks.

OK - it should be noted that Markus said that this is fixed in OOTP13 - THANK YOU!

That's fair, and probably not a real big deal.

Thanks.

It's a fact that that's how the rule works in real life and OOTP doesn't mirror it. Seems like a straightforward fix, but of course, I don't know for sure.

In real baseball, a player injured during the playoffs can be replaced by another player. Someone told me that in OOTP you cannot do this.

I have been told that when a player has a setback during a rehab assignment he has to be released for the game to continue. It's something about the player on a rehab assignment not being considered part of the DH and being considered in the minors by the game. I would check your historical transactions since the rehab feature was added to see if any players were released for no reason.

[SandMan]

Originally Posted by simcrazy

I have been told that when a player has a setback during a rehab assignment he has to be released for the game to continue. It's something about the player on a rehab assignment not being considered part of the DH and being considered in the minors by the game. I would check your historical transactions since the rehab feature was added to see if any players were released for no reason.

This is not the case at all. If a player gets injured while on a rehab assignment a poster had stated that the only recourse was to release the player. This is not true. You can go into the editor and take the player off of the DL and then simply bring him back up to the Major League. Not sure about the AI teams if this is even an issue. Tests are being run but so far not a single player has been released or waived after getting an injury while on a rehab assignment. Sweed is running tests and has not found a problem yet with the AI releasing players.

[simcrazy]

Originally Posted by Biggio509

Have any of these realism problems been fixed?

Have any of these realism problems been fixed?

In case you missed it.

"Hey guys,

let me respond to a few open issues:

#If a defensive player or pitcher gets injured on the last pitch of a half inning, you must immediately replace him. In real life, you wouldn’t have to identify the replacement until the next inning where the defensive player or pitcher is required.

-> Known issue, however this happens so rarely and unfortunately is so very hard to 'fix' that I haven't bothered about it yet.

#Spring training games are not realistic – only guys from the 40 man roster appear to be used.

-> That is a design decision and simplifies spring training. Handling non-roster invitees and extended spring rosters would be a PITA interface-wise and would also be a challenge for the AI. Hence the decision to handle it the way it is, which works fine IMO.

#Cannot put the DH in the field.

-> This is fixed in OOTP 13.

#If there are two pinch runners in a half inning, and one is for the DH, the runner pinch running for the DH is allowed to assume a defensive position. This should not be allowed.

-> Fixed in OOTP 13.

#It is possible to take out a pitcher before he has completed an at-bat. This is a deviation from reality, as this is only allowed in real life in the case of injury.

-> No, this was fixed a long time ago.

#The second pinch runner in a half inning is recorded in the box score as a pinch hitter, not a pinch runner as would be correct.

-> Works fine here, could not reproduce this in OOTP 13, so probably already fixed or wasn't an issue to begin with.

#When there are runners on base, the bunt for a hit option is not available.
-> Then use the sac bunt function, there is no difference really.

Cheers,
Markus"

Responses in order:

That's too bad, but since progress is being made (love the DH fix), I am buying the game for me and at least one friend for OOTP 13. Would really love to see this fixed as it's very annoying (see joefromchicago's post for another reason it is annoying).

Totally OK with this. Not a big deal and I actually removed it from my revised list in the OP. I am more worried about issues that affect regular season and postseason games and stats.

Thank you!

Thank you!

I respectfully must tell you that this is still an issue in OOTP12. I removed a pitcher after no at bat was completed and no injury in a game last night to test.

I'll check this again.

There should be a difference between a sac bunt and a bunt for hit. With a sac bunt, the bunter is not trying to get on base (though they'll certainly take it) and are trying to avoid foul bunts. With a bunt for a hit, a hitter is much more likely to foul the ball off as he tries to get a perfect bunt right down the line. That being said, this issue personally isn't a big deal to me.

[simcrazy]

Originally Posted by SandMan

This is not the case at all. If a player gets injured while on a rehab assignment a poster had stated that the only recourse was to release the player. This is not true. You can go into the editor and take the player off of the DL and then simply bring him back up to the Major League. Not sure about the AI teams if this is even an issue. Tests are being run but so far not a single player has been released or waived after getting an injury while on a rehab assignment. Sweed is running tests and has not found a problem yet with the AI releasing players.

It is an issue - Markus even said so - but if you notice it, you can fix the issue, as you said, by using the editor. Markus said he is fixing in OOTP13, which is great, but one shouldn't be forced to use the editor to fix this.

Whether it affects AI teams has not been proven, but I don't see how it couldn't if AI teams use the rehab feature. Perhaps Markus can weigh in on if AI teams use the rehab feature differently.

[Chicagofan76]

Originally Posted by simcrazy

Here is a list of what I see to be realism problems and/or bugs. Certainly up for debate, but the way I play, I want my OOTP world to be as close to the real world as possible. I think OOTP is a great game with plenty of frills and don't need any more before the realism issues are fixed. Markus has indicated that some of these are already fixed in OOTP 13, so I am keeping them here so he can let us know the great improvements that are definitely going to be made :

• If a defensive player or pitcher gets injured on the last pitch of a half inning, you must immediately replace him. In real life, you wouldn’t have to identify the replacement until the next inning where the defensive player or pitcher is required. I HATE this. Sometimes I put in a pitcher and he doesn't even pitch. Or I have to make a decision before I would have to normally and then the next half inning changes my decision so I waste a player.
• Cannot put the DH in the field.
• If there are two pinch runners in a half inning, and one is for the DH, the runner pinch running for the DH is allowed to assume a defensive position. This should not be allowed.
• It is possible to take out a pitcher before he has completed an at-bat. This is a deviation from reality, as this is only allowed in real life in the case of injury. Someone told me this was fixed, but it is not. I just tried it and was allowed to do it.
• The second pinch runner in a half inning is recorded in the box score as a pinch hitter, not a pinch runner as would be correct. Also, a pinch hitter or pinch runner for a DH is not recorded as a pinch hitter or pinch runner.
• When there are runners on base, the bunt for a hit option is not available. There is a difference between a sacrifice bunt and a bunt for a hit in the bunter's technique.

• Markus addressed these issues for you in 1 of you other rant threads, so why bring them up again.

  Originally Posted by simcrazy

  Minor league managers don't make nearly as much money in real life ($20k-$60k) as they do in OOTP ($80k-$300k+)

  Too many players, and too many good players, are placed on waivers. This happens in some leagues and not in others and it's hard to understand what settings cause it to happen.

  When a player is optioned down, he can't be recalled until 10 days have passed. However, he can be recalled sooner than that if a player on the major league roster is placed on the disabled list. In OOTP you can recall him without an injury at the MLB level.

  The game sims by at bat and not by pitch. This is illustrated by the take pitch issue, where if you use the take pitch feature (which I love! and is used in real life all the time) until two strikes you get unrealistic results - high walks without high corresponding strikeouts. In other words, there is no disadvantage to going down 0-2, which also affects base stealing strategy.

  Passed balls and wild pitches seem to occur more frequently with a man on third base.

  I know work has been done and progress realized in this category, but: man on 3rd, 1 out, pitching team up 4-0 in the bottom of the 7th and I get intentionally walked. This would never happen. It's better than OOTP 10, but unrealistic intentional walks are still issued occasionally.

  Injured players cannot be replaced on the playoff roster.

  Short relievers, who are not stretched out, can pitch too long and too effectively in a spot start.

  Players on rehab assignments who suffer set backs are forced to be released.

Originally Posted by simcrazy

I would love input mainly on whether these are accurate observations or not. Importance is a whole other conversation, but I would definitely like to see more alignment with real life baseball before frills are added.

• Dont sign the mgr to a deal when he asks for too much, even if his ratings are too good to pass up.
• I agree on the optioning, but i havent bothered with the real life aspect of this 1.
• Put your game into pitch by pitch vs at bat by atbat.
• I am doing reserch on the PB on runner from 3rd scores, so far i agree.
• Are your Barry Bonds? they IBB Bonds in almost all instances in 2001.
• I couldn't find the MLB rule for replacing injured players during the playoffs and have yet to ask LGO what happens when no one in my minor system is eligible for the playoffs what I can do about it.
• I know we talked about this, for now it doesnt bother me.
• Havent had this happen to me yet, but I also dont put players on rehab assignments. Mostly because of that issue.

[simcrazy]

Originally Posted by Chicagofan76

Markus addressed these issues for you in 1 of you other rant threads, so why bring them up again.

• Dont sign the mgr to a deal when he asks for too much, even if his ratings are too good to pass up.
• I agree on the optioning, but i havent bothered with the real life aspect of this 1.
• Put your game into pitch by pitch vs at bat by atbat.
• I am doing reserch on the PB on runner from 3rd scores, so far i agree.
• Are your Barry Bonds? they IBB Bonds in almost all instances in 2001.
• I couldn't find the MLB rule for replacing injured players during the playoffs and have yet to ask LGO what happens when no one in my minor system is eligible for the playoffs what I can do about it.
• I know we talked about this, for now it doesnt bother me.
• Havent had this happen to me yet, but I also dont put players on rehab assignments. Mostly because of that issue.

I changed the issues a bit, one issue was answered incorrectly and I wanted all issues to be in one place.

Responses to bullets in order:

• That's fair.
• OK, thanks. Definitely an issue, importance to people will always vary.
• This doesn't change my point. I'm actually not the one who discovered this. This thread explain it nicely: Some Fun With Take Pitch
• OK, thanks.
• No, it was a good player, but not close to Bonds' level (who is). However, in that situation, no one would walk Bonds.
• OK, but I am certain injured players can be replaced on playoff rosters. Anyone on the 40-man before Sept. 1 (not sure on this), I believe.
• OK, it's not a huge deal to me, either way, agree to disagree.
• I am worried that the AI will do it, but it hasn't been proven yet. Hard to believe it's not an issue, unless the AI treats rehab assignments differently.

[Chicagofan76]

I have yet to try the example noted in that thread, it seems like cheating to me.
I have 1 player that no matter the situation save 3, Bases loaded, Rick "Homerun" Baker at bat (.386 & 7 HR 23 RBI in 3 seasons vs my team), game tied, Bird City up by 1-3, or them trailing by 1, I IBB him he has 45 IBB in the EBL in 3 seasons. 36 issued by my team including 6 in 1 game. He is the only player in the AL that I fear. .339 51 HR 127 RBI last season. i also IBB 86 HR NL MVP Jimmy Dugan the 4 games I play his team each year, although not as much since he has good protection. So Is it unrealistic that the AI will walk me (RF AL MLP .399 57 HR 134 RBI) when my/their team is winning by 7 to setup the double play? not always in my opinion.

[simcrazy]

Markus - Can you please address the original list? I have already identified a friend to buy the game for (perhaps he will become a repeat customer!) and may try to identify one or two more if I see more issues addressed beyond the DH

[AESP_pres]

[simcrazy]

Originally Posted by AESP_pres

How is my post trolling? It's not.

[kq76]

Okay, until us mods discuss this issue I'm just going to lock this thread and the other. But until that time, to all you involved: please stop poking sticks at each other.

EDIT: Okay, this thread is staying locked. The sniping needs to end or warnings are going to have to follow. Let's all just try to grow some thicker skin and ignore posts that annoy us. Please.