Knicks

[TC Dale]

Does anyone find the comment about " We surrendered, there was no reason to ... " that Isiah made on the ESPN interview I believe, very telling about his coaching style?

If you have given up, why would you PUBLICALLY state that in an interview?

If I am Dolan, I would have already made up my mind that the guy is gone, if the coach is allowing the players to "give up", then how can any self-respecting Knicks fan want to sit and watch this side show that is the New York NBA franchise?

I just found it very odd to publically state that kind of defeatist attitude. I know he wouldn't be my coach very long.

[Syd Thrift]

If you're down by 20 with 1:25 to play, there's no chance of coming back. It's not baseball. I can find a lot of fault with Isiah over a lot of things (here I'll go back to Jerome James), but not this.

[jaxmagicman]

Originally Posted by Syd Thrift

If you're down by 20 with 1:25 to play, there's no chance of coming back. It's not baseball. I can find a lot of fault with Isiah over a lot of things (here I'll go back to Jerome James), but not this.

There is a chance, it has happened a few times.

[YankeePride]

Originally Posted by CommishJoe

I'm a Knicks fan in passing (I read the paper about their games the next day), and every time I see them win a game, I'm disappointed. I want them to lose as many games as possible so firing Isiah will be an absolute no brainer. I figure he's gone no matter what anyway, but I wouldn't mind him sealing the deal.

Unfortunately, he screwed the Knicks over so badly that they won't even get a high draft pick out of it (you're welcome Chicago).

Losing this season to lose Isiah is more than worth it in the long run.

I wouldn't count on it.

Dolan seems convinced that Thomas can turn the team around. His speech a few days ago didn't sound comforting for non-Thomas supporters.

I really don't care if the Knicks keep Thomas. I don't think their mess is entirely his fault and I doubt another GM could fix it. Dolan is going to avoid paying Thomas while paying top dollar for a qualified GM.

[QuestGAV]

Originally Posted by Syd Thrift

If you're down by 20 with 1:25 to play, there's no chance of coming back. It's not baseball. I can find a lot of fault with Isiah over a lot of things (here I'll go back to Jerome James), but not this.

If you just mean considering his team to have lost I agree, if you mean the whole incident I think it's unclear. There's no room for a coach to be threatening (even obliquely) physical harm to players who are trying to play the game. It's not Melo's fault his coach left him in there. I realize there's all sorts of unspoken rules that govern these situations, just like in baseball. Just like in baseball, the system works precisely because the rules are unspoken. The players have control of the consequences for violating them, which is as it should be since they are the ones who are going to have to absorb the retaliation.

[TC Dale]

Originally Posted by Syd Thrift

If you're down by 20 with 1:25 to play, there's no chance of coming back. It's not baseball. I can find a lot of fault with Isiah over a lot of things (here I'll go back to Jerome James), but not this.

Sorry Syd, if I am an owner, I don't want any of my players or coaching staff giving up on a blowout or a close game. If you can't play hard all the time, then that sends the wrong signal.

If you stop trying, you start dying. Giving up isn't an option. Especially for a coach.

And with the NBA rules like they are, nothing is finished till the horn sounds to end the game. Like Jax said, has happened before, and can happen again.

But that isn't to say a team will not be blown out of a game, I just don't want them going thru the motions and not playing hard. That to me is unforgivable.

[1998 Yankees]

Originally Posted by TC Dale

Sorry Syd, if I am an owner, I don't want any of my players or coaching staff giving up on a blowout or a close game. If you can't play hard all the time, then that sends the wrong signal.

If you stop trying, you start dying. Giving up isn't an option. Especially for a coach.

Even if the game was lost at that point, it just sounds bad for a coach to say "we surrendered" for any reason. Why would it be OK for him talk that way and not the players? Imagine if they said something like this to explain why they gave up trying in another situation.

[YankeePride]

Maybe he was speaking about his players?

[1998 Yankees]

Originally Posted by YankeePride

Maybe he was speaking about his players?

Still, why talk about it? Why put it into words? Thomas did way too much talking after the game, which prompted Karl to fire back in defense. The way I see it, after a couple of days following the story, is that Thomas should have been suspended or fined for instigating on the court and off.

[Syd Thrift]

Originally Posted by jaxmagicman

There is a chance, it has happened a few times.

Okay, when. I want dates and teams so I can look them up. Minute and a half to go, down by 20. Those are your criteria. Not 10 minutes to go, not down by 5.

[Syd Thrift]

Originally Posted by TC Dale

Sorry Syd, if I am an owner, I don't want any of my players or coaching staff giving up on a blowout or a close game. If you can't play hard all the time, then that sends the wrong signal.

If you stop trying, you start dying. Giving up isn't an option. Especially for a coach.

And with the NBA rules like they are, nothing is finished till the horn sounds to end the game. Like Jax said, has happened before, and can happen again.

But that isn't to say a team will not be blown out of a game, I just don't want them going thru the motions and not playing hard. That to me is unforgivable.

If "giving up isn't an option", why is there such a thing as garbage time? And just because you say it's happened before doesn't mean it has. Down by 20 points with a couple minutes to play is pretty extreme. Maybe it's been done in college at the low levels or the pre-NBA pros, but for all intents and purposes it's an impossible feat to achieve. That doesn't mean teams should tank an entire season or that being down by 20 even going into the 4th is cause for giving up, but this was the very end of the game and things were out of hand. Frankly, Karl showed a real lack of class by keeping his starters in that long, and I hope it comes around to bite him on the rear in the sense of injuries to his front line.

Again, I don't want to take anything away from Isiah's stupidity.

[jaxmagicman]

Originally Posted by Syd Thrift

Okay, when. I want dates and teams so I can look them up. Minute and a half to go, down by 20. Those are your criteria. Not 10 minutes to go, not down by 5.

Here is a team down 10 with 48 seconds to go.

http://nl.newsbank.com/nl-search/we/...ckval=GooglePM

So if they can score 10 in 48 seconds, 20 in 2 minutes is possible.

I will continue to look for the other games, but I know it happened twice to the Magic, once against the Pacers they came back from 20 down and once against the cavs with just 1:30 to go the Cavs came back from 19.

[Syd Thrift]

Nope, sorry. That's not what I asked. Keep trying.

[QuestGAV]

Originally Posted by Syd Thrift

Frankly, Karl showed a real lack of class by keeping his starters in that long, and I hope it comes around to bite him on the rear in the sense of injuries to his front line.

That's nonsense. If you can use game time to teach your team something you have every right to do that. The other team is not owed anything with regard to making them look less awful if you have something you can achieve for yourself.

[mh2365]

No one has to look any further than Isiah Thomas as the problem with the Knicks... Everything he touches since retiring has turned to complete and utter crap. Couldn't of happened to a nicer guy either and by nicer I mean complete waste of DNA.

[Syd Thrift]

That's not fair. Isiah was a great point guard. Is Ted Williams a "waste of DNA" because he was a horrendous manager?

[mh2365]

Isiah is a waste of DNA because he is a lousy person. Name one good thing you have ever heard about him? Just being a great point guard doesn't make you a good person.

He ran the CBA into the ground, he ran the Toronto Raptors into the ground, he tried to run the Pacers into the ground before Larry fired his sorry ass, and now he is running the Knicks into the ground.

But even with all that he still manages to find time to be a horrible person too.

It should be noted that I have an unrational hate for him though. Don't like the constant racial remarks he makes. Don't like the fact that on his way out the door at IU he slammed all the people in the state as racists and said he hoped to never step foot in the state again, then he practically begged for the chance to coach the Pacers only because he thought he had all the pieces to a title team.

So while maybe he doesn't beat small puppies and pee on homeless people, it certainly wouldn't surprise me if he did.

Once again please note I have an unrational hate for him !!!!

[mh2365]

Originally Posted by Syd Thrift

That's not fair. Isiah was a great point guard. Is Ted Williams a "waste of DNA" because he was a horrendous manager?

And considering the offspring Williams' DNA spawned I'd say his DNA was a little tainted

[1998 Yankees]

I have to get up from my desk. I have to go home sometime. I've got to turn on the TV at 7:30 and tune in MSG. I must watch the Knicks play the Bobcats. The 6-17 Bobcats, who are going to look like 17-6 against the undermanned, undermotivated Knicks who will be coming down from an emotional high (beating the Jazz) and will relax against one of the few teams who are worse than them (on paper). I must watch the Knicks lose tonight to the mighty Bobcats (rowrrrr, hisssss). I have to do all this, right?

[YankeePride]

I've already made the decision to close my eyes whenever Crawford has the ball.