Knicks

[MattH3322]

How do the Knicks suck with this payroll

NBA Salaries

[yankeesrule]

Easy. Bad management that didn't care how players would mesh or if they were actually worth the contracts. It all started because they were over the cap when they were good and so their mentallity was "heck, we're not getting under the cap anytime soon so a players contract wont bother us if we can upgrade talent" but then the talent didn't mesh and instead they have a roster of me-first guards and soso inside guys

[MattH3322]

Originally Posted by yankeesrule

Easy. Bad management that didn't care how players would mesh or if they were actually worth the contracts. It all started because they were over the cap when they were good and so their mentallity was "heck, we're not getting under the cap anytime soon so a players contract wont bother us if we can upgrade talent" but then the talent didn't mesh and instead they have a roster of me-first guards and soso inside guys

Oh, the Yankee's style of management.

[1998 Yankees]

Originally Posted by yankeesrule

Easy. Bad management that didn't care how players would mesh or if they were actually worth the contracts. It all started because they were over the cap when they were good and so their mentallity was "heck, we're not getting under the cap anytime soon so a players contract wont bother us if we can upgrade talent" but then the talent didn't mesh and instead they have a roster of me-first guards and soso inside guys

Yes.

Originally Posted by MattH3322

Oh, the Yankee's style of management.

N/M in this context.

[Syd Thrift]

Also, half their team is point guards. Even if they all were talented (and FWIW I think Starbury, Nate Dog, and Franchise are all definitely good enough to fit into a contending team's rotation), you can't win when half your team are point guards. And they "won" the Jerome James Sweepstakes, which really ought to make you a 60-loss team every year if there is a God.

[APujols5]

Originally Posted by MattH3322

How do the Knicks suck with this payroll

NBA Salaries

Because they gave those salaries to deadbeat stiffs.
the main problem is they have 4 PGs (including Jcraw)

and only Nate really understands how to play the PG role. Francis, Starbury and Jcraw are shoot first, almost never pass, undersized SGs trapped playing PG

They haven't had a center since Ewing. I know some people will defend Channing, but really he's more PF than Center. Curry is a fat lazy piece of dung. and always has been and always will be.

Kelvin Cato never was any good. Jerome James should be in prison for stealing his money. Jared Jeffries is a stiff player that doesn't understand how to get in the flow of the game. and then there's Q, who has never met a shot he didn't like, but also never has understood how to play D, pass the ball or rebound. Oh and I almost forgot Malik Rose, who would be the perfect center if he grew about 5-6 inches. But right now he's stuck with a center's game in a 6'6-6'7 body

That basically sums up the Knicks

Oh and their coach is a freakin Joke......

[1998 Yankees]

Originally Posted by APujols5

Curry is a fat lazy piece of dung. and always has been and always will be.

Not one to mince words, eh?

I tend to agree with everything that you said except this one, possibly.

Curry's been showing signs of maturing into the big man in the middle that the Knicks have needed since Ewing. He's had 20+ ppg for 10 or 11 straight games, he's got good movement under the basket with both hands, he's been passing out of double-teams, his fouls are down, and he's starting to block shots. There's hope for him yet, but he has to improve his FT because other teams are going to give him the "hack-a-Shaq" routine if he gets really good.

[APujols5]

Originally Posted by 1998 Yankees

Not one to mince words, eh?

I tend to agree with everything that you said except this one, possibly.

Curry's been showing signs of maturing into the big man in the middle that the Knicks have needed since Ewing. He's had 20+ ppg for 10 or 11 straight games, he's got good movement under the basket with both hands, he's been passing out of double-teams, his fouls are down, and he's starting to block shots. There's hope for him yet, but he has to improve his FT because other teams are going to give him the "hack-a-Shaq" routine if he gets really good.

Having lived in IL most of my life, I have seen Curry since early on in his HS career and he has the crappiest work effort because he is horribly lazy.

[1998 Yankees]

Originally Posted by APujols5

Having lived in IL most of my life, I have seen Curry since early on in his HS career and he has the crappiest work effort because he is horribly lazy.

For some people, there is a big difference in maturity in the five years between 18 and 23. We'll see. I hope I'm right. They say that Mark Aguirre is working wonders with him.

[YankeePride]

Originally Posted by APujols5

Because they gave those salaries to deadbeat stiffs.
the main problem is they have 4 PGs (including Jcraw)

and only Nate really understands how to play the PG role. Francis, Starbury and Jcraw are shoot first, almost never pass, undersized SGs trapped playing PG

Nate is worse than Crawford and Marbury when it comes to handling the point guard duties. Sadly, the Knicks best point guard is rookie forward Renaldo Balkman. And yes, that's meant to make people laugh and Knick fans cry because it's true.

Nate is even worse than the Marbury, Francis, Crawford trio when it comes to shooting first. If Nate hits one shot, he goes on a shooting spree that would make Antoine Walker jealous.

Marbury's problem the past two seasons has been this desire to pass first instead of score. Thing is, by doing so he's holding himself back too much and passing immediately starting a play instead of creating a play and finding the open man. Everyone getting on him saying he only shoots first and Marbury trying to please those people has actually made him a worse player. That's why I would always advise players to not listen to fans because most fans don't know a thing about basketball.

As for Curry. He's been better offensively, but defensively he's the laziest player I've seen wearing a Knick uniform. And, I've seen Charles Smith play so that's saying a lot. Curry still doesn't jump to get rebounds and he jogs back on defense allowing guards that push the ball up court to slide in for a layup before he even recognizes the offensive player.

That being said, the Knicks aren't terrible in terms of talent. It's getting that talent to work together that's been difficult.

[JDOldSchool]

I really like David Lee. I'm trying to figure out how he could find his way to the Bulls.

[Melo]

I'm a Knick fan.

It pains me to see the team this way. The team has been run right into the ground. It's fallen and can't get up.

Yesterday, I heard an interview with Walt Frazier. He's written a book about how basketball should be played. He's also the color man on MSG which does the Knick games. How a guy who was a great of the game; a guy who had talent AND desire can comment on this team year after year without sticking needles in his eyes is beyond me.

[1998 Yankees]

Originally Posted by YankeePride

Nate is worse than Crawford and Marbury when it comes to handling the point guard duties . . . Marbury's problem the past two seasons has been this desire to pass first instead of score. Thing is, by doing so he's holding himself back too much and passing immediately starting a play instead of creating a play and finding the open man. Everyone getting on him saying he only shoots first and Marbury trying to please those people has actually made him a worse player . . . the Knicks aren't terrible in terms of talent. It's getting that talent to work together that's been difficult.

Astute comments, these. I should have been harsher on APujols5 accordingly. The Knicks do not have a real point guard, period.

Nate is an exciting player at times but does not have real floor presence and selflessness required for point guard. None of the others do either, apparently (Balkman? That's not his position, but hmmm). Perhaps a healthy Francis being told PG is his, act accordingly? Marbury SG only (although someone told me he is too short for that)? But Crawford and Robinson are extra SG's and should be coming off the bench (if not traded).

I will also question APujols5's judgment on Jared Jeffries. Is he talking from previous observation? If not, he should give Jeffries a break; he just returned from injury and started his first game this week. They say that this is a high-energy, low-ego, defensive-minded player that the Knicks need. I like watching him and Balkman play more than seeing Robinson's hijinks.

Originally Posted by YankeePride

As for Curry. He's been better offensively, but defensively he's the laziest player I've seen wearing a Knick uniform. And, I've seen Charles Smith play so that's saying a lot. Curry still doesn't jump to get rebounds and he jogs back on defense allowing guards that push the ball up court to slide in for a layup before he even recognizes the offensive player.

I'm not starting an Eddie Curry Fan Club, but I'm pretty sure that he had double-doubles (points and rebounds) in that recent run of games that I talked about. The jury is still out, and the usual nonsense is setting in (going the other way, like talk about him on the All-Star East team this year), but he has been playing much better lately.

[1998 Yankees]

Originally Posted by JDOldSchool

I really like David Lee. I'm trying to figure out how he could find his way to the Bulls.

That's easy. Offer your end-of-bench player to Thomas for Lee. Thomas will throw in draft choices as well. Use something shiny to distract him.

[1998 Yankees]

Originally Posted by Melo

I'm a Knick fan.

It pains me to see the team this way. The team has been run right into the ground. It's fallen and can't get up.

Yesterday, I heard an interview with Walt Frazier. He's written a book about how basketball should be played. He's also the color man on MSG which does the Knick games. How a guy who was a great of the game; a guy who had talent AND desire can comment on this team year after year without sticking needles in his eyes is beyond me.

I feel your pain, believe me.

I really like Frazier as commentator, despite his repetitive floridity (I looked that up, it is a word). See this for some amusing remarks about him. How does he get by these days, covering the Knicks? Memories, for one. Everytime he gets introduced on air, he's referred to as "Living Legend." He looks sooooo much better compared to what goes on in MSG these days.

Plus, Frazier seems to be able to distance himself from the Knicks while obviously rooting for them. He comes up with astute, penetrating analytical comments (among all the "swishing and dishing" stuff) that zeroes in on what's wrong with the Knicks and he's not afraid to criticize the players. I've never heard him disrespect the coach or team management, though. Seems his bread is buttered to his satisfaction.

[YankeePride]

Walt "Clyde" Frazier is brilliant. He is both hilarious - seriously, the guy is funny. Just listen to the words he uses during games. "Swishing and dishing!" is my favorite. - and unbiased without ever praising or bashing the team too much.

I enjoy that he comments on opposing players and admires their ability rather than saying the Knicks' poor defense is the only reason so-and-so great player is scoring 20 points in the game. Hard to find announcers that give the other team credit. He'll get excited when the Knicks are making a comeback, but never get overwhelmed if the Knicks are up by double digits, instead always reminding the viewer that no lead is safe in the league. He won't get down on the team when they are losing by 30 points. He'll mention their poor execution, but also note that the opposing team is playing extremely well, if that is the case.

As for Curry, you're right 1998 Yankees. He has been getting a good number of double-doubles. His rebound numbers are up, but it doesn't tell the whole story with him. He still gets beat on rebounds by offensive players because he'll let the ball come to him instead of boxing out for it. He's 7 feet so he'll get most rebounds that come his way, but he'll lose out on 2-3 rebounds a game because he was outhustled by a smaller player. 2-3 more rebounds a game would give him 10+ this season and then no one would cry about his numbers.

And I say Balkman because he's extremely visual. He outhustles everyone except David Lee (talk about a kid that has all of a sudden been the better pick than Channing Frye. That wasn't the case last year, but wow, love David Lee). And he'll grab a rebound and start a fastbreak instantly even if the true point guards want to wait by the free throw line for the pass. You'll see David Lee and Jamal Crawford (the only time I can stand the guy, up until...wait for it) run up the court with him and have a nice layup to put up (unless you're Jamal Crawford and you prefer to put up a floater 8 feet from the basket. Why he does this every time he drives to the basket is beyond me because he NEVER hits the darn shot).

I do like that Isiah talks to his young players everytime they make a mistake. Nate seems a bit deaf at times, even going as far as to say that he doesn't know if he'll make the mistake again. The answer should be, "I won't."

I'd really like to see Curry, Jeffries, Lee, Balkman, and Richardson on the court together. Those are the only players so far this season that seem to have a head on their shoulders most of the time.

[1998 Yankees]

After all this encouragement about the Knicks, they played like chumps again last night. What does it take for them to play well two games in a row?

12-12 Indiana looked like San Antonio against them, scoring 42 points in the second quarter! Curry got shut down by a physical guy and double-teaming; they say he looked like he wilted under the pressure and was exhausted by the 4th quarter. Again the Knicks got bombed with 3's because nobody felt like defending the perimeter. Jeffries, whom I talked up, fouls out with his mother watching in the stands! Collins, by the way, is starting to look like a big mistake to me, the way he played in the garbage time he was given.

I'm disgruntled right now. I need another game like they played against Atlanta to cheer me up. Maybe I'll post here again at that time.

[1998 Yankees]

Originally Posted by 1998 Yankees

I'm disgruntled right now. I need another game like they played against Atlanta to cheer me up. Maybe I'll post here again at that time.

Dola for quoting myself.

Well, I'm back! Why? Because last night I witnessed one of the best Knicks games that I have seen in years. The Knicks, with only 8 players in uniform, beat a very strong team with defense, hustle, and heart. It was wonderful to hear the crowd cheer them, loudly and appreciative of the effort.

Why can't they do this more often? For example, their next game is at home against the Bobcats. Watch them get blown out.

I'm convinced that there are three things that need to be done before these Knicks can ever be consistently good:

1) Find the right players and give them playing time. David Lee must start. For him to sit in favor of Quentin Richardson is a shame. Find more time for Renaldo Balkman as well. Keep developing Eddy Curry.

2) Sort out the point guard situation. Marbury should be told that it's OK to play his game. That means Francis has to be a PG if he's going to play with him. If not, trade him but not in favor of Crawford or Robinson. Neither of those guys can play PG properly and both need a leash or a trade.

3) Get a better coach if Isiah cannot get substantial improvement out of the players that he has now. They proved last night that they have the potential. It is up to the coach to put the right players on the floor, in the right positions, and to motivate them to greatness night after night.

Well, for one night and one day at least, I am no longer disgruntled.

[CommishJoe]

I'm a Knicks fan in passing (I read the paper about their games the next day), and every time I see them win a game, I'm disappointed. I want them to lose as many games as possible so firing Isiah will be an absolute no brainer. I figure he's gone no matter what anyway, but I wouldn't mind him sealing the deal.

Unfortunately, he screwed the Knicks over so badly that they won't even get a high draft pick out of it (you're welcome Chicago).

Losing this season to lose Isiah is more than worth it in the long run.

[yankeesrule]

Originally Posted by CommishJoe

Unfortunately, he screwed the Knicks over so badly that they won't even get a high draft pick out of it (you're welcome Chicago).

As a Bulls fan, Thank You