2007/2008 European football thread

[bababui]

Originally Posted by Fallschirmjager

Bayern spent alot
I dont agree with all of their spending unless they play 5 strikers a match
Its still possible for them not to win the league

Dortmund has a massive debt due to building their stadium in time for the WC
The league paid for a large chunk of it, but the stadium was so expensive that the team had to take out huge loans to pay for their part of it
It will be worth it however
I watched one game inside it during the WC and it is a incredibly nice stadium

I love the Bundesliga but I just cant help but think that the vast disparity in wealth will damage not just this league but any league that allows them. Thats why I think revenue sharing is a good idea. It also makes for more competitive football.

[edrooney]

I'm watching Liverpool v. Werder Bremen, too. But I finished work hours ago, so I'm having a nice frosty one with it.

Voronin scored a nice opportunist goal to start things off. Wearing number 10 as well. Hmm..

Paletta has already done a major balls up, slipping in the build up to Bremen's goal.

Riise gave it a trademark thwack with his left from a direct FK, which the Bremen keeper spannered into the net. 'Chocolate fingers' said the summariser.

2-1 Liverpool, 20 mins gone. Reds for the league!!

[bababui]

Originally Posted by edrooney

I'm watching Liverpool v. Werder Bremen, too. But I finished work hours ago, so I'm having a nice frosty one with it.

Voronin scored a nice opportunist goal to start things off. Wearing number 10 as well. Hmm..

Paletta has already done a major balls up, slipping in the build up to Bremen's goal.

Riise gave it a trademark thwack with his left from a direct FK, which the Bremen keeper spannered into the net. 'Chocolate fingers' said the summariser.

2-1 Liverpool, 20 mins gone. Reds for the league!!

Could we get an English translation, please?

[mlyons]

The most successful leagues in Europe all have huge wealth disparities. The Premier League, La Primera Liga, Serie A -- they all have two to four enormously wealthy teams that the rest of the teams can't hope to compete with financially. It's just the nature of the sport. Frankly, I think MLS is way behind the curve as far as that goes, and won't ever be a major global league until it gets to that point.

[bababui]

Originally Posted by mlyons

The most successful leagues in Europe all have huge wealth disparities. The Premier League, La Primera Liga, Serie A -- they all have two to four enormously wealthy teams that the rest of the teams can't hope to compete with financially. It's just the nature of the sport. Frankly, I think MLS is way behind the curve as far as that goes, and won't ever be a major global league until it gets to that point.

And you think this is a good thing?? In Serie A there is also massive corruption. While strict revenue sharing ala the NFL might not be a great idea, the massive gap in wealth between teams is a bad idea. It also hurts third world countries who have their best players poached away. Its the new colonialism.

[Fallschirmjager]

Originally Posted by edrooney

I'm watching Liverpool v. Werder Bremen, too. But I finished work hours ago, so I'm having a nice frosty one with it.

Voronin scored a nice opportunist goal to start things off. Wearing number 10 as well. Hmm..

Paletta has already done a major balls up, slipping in the build up to Bremen's goal.

Riise gave it a trademark thwack with his left from a direct FK, which the Bremen keeper spannered into the net. 'Chocolate fingers' said the summariser.

2-1 Liverpool, 20 mins gone. Reds for the league!!

Even for a friendly Bremen looks pretty bad
Losing Klose is going to hurt and Klasnic almost dying is just plain bad luck

It could be a long season for them

[edrooney]

Originally Posted by Fallschirmjager

Even for a friendly Bremen looks pretty bad
Losing Klose is going to hurt and Klasnic almost dying is just plain bad luck

It could be a long season for them

I don't really know enough about them, but they have been woeful tonight. Liverpool have had the run of the midfield, and are having a nice bit of friendly exercise.

2 players in the Reds team I've never heard of. Hobbs in centre mid, and some fella called Zhar out on the left. Qui?

[edrooney]

Originally Posted by bababui

Could we get an English translation, please?

Certainly. Liverpool have scored two football goals. Bremen have scored just one. Hence '2-1 Liverpool'. n00b

[edrooney]

As far as improving the quality and international standing of the MLS, the answer is fairly simple ... money.

More money needs to come into the game from fan attendances, merchandise, but predominantly from TV revenue.

Once the money is there, it needs to be spent on facilities and players. As soon as established international players co-mingle with improved local talent, then you have yourselves some quality clubs. They then, of course, would benefit from competing in high level continental football like the European Cup. Perhaps they could take a leaf out of the national team's book, and compete in the South American continental club competition.

What's odd is that there is clearly the money in LA to pay Beckham a large sum of money. Alexei Lalas said the other day that they've already recouped the amount they're going spend on Becks (for one season, or for the contract's duration, I'm unsure). Possibly a dubious claim, but nonetheless the money was there to get him.

I'm not advocating the spending of lavish amounts of money on the best ex-footballers in the world a la the NASL in the 70s. But to compete with the top tier clubs in Europe and South America, the spending needs to be on a parity, and until local talent becomes top notch and deep, the talent needs to come from overseas.

All that said, the quality is, I think, improving. The national team is gradually improving in terms of quality and depth. Small improvements over time, and see where things stand in 2-5 years.

[Fallschirmjager]

As I have said dozens of times before
If even 3% of Americas youth players keep playing into highschool level I think there is a very bright future since the best among them will either go on to play for money or play for a NCAA team

America is blessed to have the NCAA structure in place as a training ground for 18-22 year olds

[mlyons]

Originally Posted by bababui

And you think this is a good thing?? In Serie A there is also massive corruption. While strict revenue sharing ala the NFL might not be a great idea, the massive gap in wealth between teams is a bad idea. It also hurts third world countries who have their best players poached away. Its the new colonialism.

The massive corruption in Italian football has nothing to do with wealth disparity; it involves rich and poor teams alike. Similarly, the biggest scandals in German football had absolutely nothing to do with the wealthy teams; it was the second division teams buying referees and fixing matches. La Liga has the biggest gap between rich and poor, and has been the league least threatened by corruption of all the majors. You're going to have to come up with a better argument than that.

[ukhotstove]

Originally Posted by bababui

I love the Bundesliga but I just cant help but think that the vast disparity in wealth will damage not just this league but any league that allows them. Thats why I think revenue sharing is a good idea. It also makes for more competitive football.

Revenue sharing wont happen, whatever you know about American sports forget when your talking about European sports as they are totally different.

1) Revenue sharing wont happen because unlike American sports leagues European teams have somewhere to go, example if the Yankees don't like revenue sharing then what can they do about it ? Go join the Japanese league or form another league ? Very unlikely isn't it.

Man Utd, Real Madrid and the likes don't like revenue sharing they take their ball home and go make another league of their own and take all the TV money with them this is why the European leagues don't propose revenue sharing.

2) You've mentioned a draft in the past, again this wont work as college sport specially in England (apart from the boat race and Oxford-Cambridge rugby game) are about on the same level or even lower than Junior High School.

[ukhotstove]

Originally Posted by edrooney

I'm watching Liverpool v. Werder Bremen, too. But I finished work hours ago, so I'm having a nice frosty one with it.

Voronin scored a nice opportunist goal to start things off. Wearing number 10 as well. Hmm..

Paletta has already done a major balls up, slipping in the build up to Bremen's goal.

Riise gave it a trademark thwack with his left from a direct FK, which the Bremen keeper spannered into the net. 'Chocolate fingers' said the summariser.

2-1 Liverpool, 20 mins gone. Reds (Man Utd) for the league!!

Yeah I'd go with that as well

[mlyons]

You don't really know enough about American sports to say things like that, ukhotstove. As a matter of fact, there have been quite a few occasions when people have been dissatisfied enough with existing setups to go form new leagues. Most of those leagues folded pretty quickly, but some (most notably the ABA and AFL) did well enough that the old leagues accepted the new ideas and merged with them.

[ukhotstove]

Originally Posted by mlyons

You don't really know enough about American sports to say things like that, ukhotstove. As a matter of fact, there have been quite a few occasions when people have been dissatisfied enough with existing setups to go form new leagues. Most of those leagues folded pretty quickly, but some (most notably the ABA and AFL) did well enough that the old leagues accepted the new ideas and merged with them.

I know enough about football that revenue sharing and drafts will not work and thats because unlike American sports football teams in Europe can form break away leagues because of the ammount of teams there are, unlike in America were there are far fewer teams to form break away leagues even if they wanted. And also that there isn't a college system in Europe like America that can sustain a draft of football players.

Like I say if the Yankees don't like revenue sharing their isn't much they can do unless around 20 of the other MLB teams said they didn't like it is there and doubtfull that will happen is it, you don't have to have a degree in American sports to know this imo.

[ukhotstove]

Also you hit the nail on the head when you said "Most of these leagues folded pretty quickly" were as if a break away league consisting of say Mna Utd, Liverpool, Chelsea, Madrid, Barca, Inter, Milan, Bayern etc wouldn't fold pretty quick imo.

[mlyons]

Seriously, you're just babbling now.

[Tommysixfingers]

Originally Posted by Fallschirmjager

Well league football is returning
Unless you live in Scandinavia in which case it is winding down

We reached midseason in Sweden yesterday.

[ukhotstove]

Originally Posted by mlyons

Seriously, you're just babbling now.

Theres been talk of break away leagues forming because the big teams dont get enough shares of the money as it is so yeah I must be babbling

[Muppetus Galacticus]

Originally Posted by ukhotstove

Theres been talk of break away leagues forming because the big teams dont get enough shares of the money as it is but **** all has ever happened and it's just a cycle of talk, talk, talk, so yeah I must be babbling

Fixed