Worst team in the majors?

[CBL-Commish]

I'm not talking simply who has the worst record. I'm talking a combination of things:

- expectations due to market, park, payroll, etc.
- history
- underachieving players
- inept management
- low marginal wins per marginal dollar spent
- fan support

My vote goes to my favorite team, the Baltimore Orioles.

They have a payroll approaching $100M, yet are on the verge of their 10th consecutive losing season.

They're a mid-market team, and were a large market team before the Nats came to DC. They own their own regional sports network, MASN, and negotiated a sweethart deal with Selig to make money off the Nats' broadcasts. They're not a poor team by any stretch.

They collapse in August and September every year. It's a running joke in the national media to ask "what day did you have the O's slipping below .500 for good?"

They play in the AL East, which is a handicap. But despite having a payroll larger than the Blue Jays almost every year they have a worse record than the Jays almost every year.

In 1998 they sold out every game, and had for years. Now they're lucky to get 15,000 for a midweek game at Oriole Park. The only big crowds are when Yanks' and Sox' fans overrun the place.

The roster is busting at the seams with highly paid players at or around replacement level, and/or on the DL. Jay Gibbons, Jay Payton, Aubrey Huff, Kris Benson, Paul Bako, Danys Baez.

They've turned Leo Mazzone from "The Best Pitching Coach Ever" to "The Pitching Coach Whose Bullpen Gave Up 24 runs in a Game".

They gave up the most runs in a major league game since 1897.

They lose games in the most horrible, painful ways because they have a good rotation but an abysmal, embarassing bullpen. And that pen is/was full of retreads of retreads like Paul Shuey, Rob Bell, Baez, Scott Williamson, Todd Williams, and John Parrish.

They have two playoff appearances since 1983, and one involved Jeffrey Maier.

A group of fans staged a walkout protest during a game last year.

The team has a long history of winning and playing the game the right way from the 1966-1983 era, which has been systematically destroyed over the past two decades.

Anybody want to try to beat that?

[edrooney]

It's pretty hard to argue with what you've said about the O's and, given money spent, they probably are the worst dollar for dollar team.

I've gone for the Pirates, though. Whereas the O's have one of the best pitchers in baseball every five days, the Pirates have nothing going for them. And then they make one of the dumbest moves I've seen for ages, and put themselves on the hook for $9m worth of Matt Morris next season.

[ctorg]

I had to pick the Pirates as well. I'd rather be an Orioles fan than a Pirates fan. There are kids in high school now who can say that the last time the Pirates had a winning season was before they were born.

[CBL-Commish]

Originally Posted by ctorg

I had to pick the Pirates as well. I'd rather be an Orioles fan than a Pirates fan. There are kids in high school now who can say that the last time the Pirates had a winning season was before they were born.

But don't the Pirates enter each new season with zero expectations? I know from long, hard experience that each year Orioles fans think there's a reasonable chance this is the year we get back to the glory days. Or at least fringy wildcard contention. And each year we have our souls crushed in new and innovative ways. Only teams with plausible hope can be disappointed, and the O's just manage to barely do enough each year to make hope plausible.

[swampdragon]

But the Orioles at least have hope. The Devil Rays, Royals, and Pirates have none, because even if they develop good players they won't keep them.

[mauboy]

White SOx

[CBL-Commish]

Originally Posted by swampdragon

But the Orioles at least have hope. The Devil Rays, Royals, and Pirates have none, because even if they develop good players they won't keep them.

I think that's the main point. The Orioles have a flicker of hope, therefore are capable of disappointment.

The Rays, Royals and Pirates know they're not going to do anything on April 1st. O's fans think that they might win the wildcard if everything goes right, but instead every year is Groundhog Day and you wake up in October and they had 72 wins and any number of horribly embarrassing incidents yet again.

[reds1]

The Astros appear to be heading to the wilderness for awhile as well. Two years removed from their WS appearance, they have tanked despite a large payroll and have very few prospects down on the farm. Seems they suffer from a meddling owner as well.

[darkhorse]

Devil Rays, and no one else is even close.

[Erik W.]

Devil Rays. The others have at least some sort of success in their past, if not prospects for a good future. The Rays have neither.

[ctorg]

I can see the argument for the Devil Rays, but to me that doesn't stack up against Pittsburgh, where they haven't seen a winning season since six years before the Rays even existed.

[<Pion>]

Originally Posted by CBL-Commish

But don't the Pirates enter each new season with zero expectations? I know from long, hard experience that each year Orioles fans think there's a reasonable chance this is the year we get back to the glory days. Or at least fringy wildcard contention. And each year we have our souls crushed in new and innovative ways. Only teams with plausible hope can be disappointed, and the O's just manage to barely do enough each year to make hope plausible.

If the parameters are narrowed down enough, then yes you can get people to vote for the team you want them to vote for. Seems like this poll already has it's mind made up given the criteria.

[zekester91]

Originally Posted by CBL-Commish

But don't the Pirates enter each new season with zero expectations? I know from long, hard experience that each year Orioles fans think there's a reasonable chance this is the year we get back to the glory days. Or at least fringy wildcard contention. And each year we have our souls crushed in new and innovative ways. Only teams with plausible hope can be disappointed, and the O's just manage to barely do enough each year to make hope plausible.

no every year, at least in the Pittsburgh area, we have the expation to finish over .500. Granted that's not the same as O's fans hope to get good again, but all we really want is a .500 year, and every year it's the same, start horibly, start to improve after the all-star break, bring hope that the next year will be the year and then start the new year horibly again.

[CBL-Commish]

Originally Posted by <Pion>

If the parameters are narrowed down enough, then yes you can get people to vote for the team you want them to vote for. Seems like this poll already has it's mind made up given the criteria.

I obviously had my opinion before making up the poll. I just wanted to see if others saw things differently. The answer, at least so far, is a resounding yes.

[darkhorse]

Originally Posted by CBL-Commish

I obviously had my opinion before making up the poll. I just wanted to see if others saw things differently. The answer, at least so far, is a resounding yes.

Well, that's at least one person lacking pi on face.

[<Pion>]

Originally Posted by CBL-Commish

I obviously had my opinion before making up the poll. I just wanted to see if others saw things differently. The answer, at least so far, is a resounding yes.

I just think the poll could have been better if you included teams you're not immediately eliminating via your criteria. A better comparison given the criteria would be to have teams similar to the Orioles that actually match to the criteria set up. Not a list of teams that can automatically be excluded or argued against because they don't meet the criteria before anyone even comments.

[<Pion>]

Originally Posted by darkhorse

Well, that's at least one person lacking pi on face.

Better get a washcloth, you've got a little bit of 3.14 on your chin

[jerrycapo]

Originally Posted by CBL-Commish

But don't the Pirates enter each new season with zero expectations? I know from long, hard experience that each year Orioles fans think there's a reasonable chance this is the year we get back to the glory days. Or at least fringy wildcard contention. And each year we have our souls crushed in new and innovative ways. Only teams with plausible hope can be disappointed, and the O's just manage to barely do enough each year to make hope plausible.

Having lived in the Baltimore/DC area up until the 2005 season started I think you have been kidding yourself to think that the Orioles have had a chance in any year since 2000. Sure they spend a lot of money, but only spend that money after every top player is off the board and has rejected Baltimore's offer. As long as Angelos owns the team there is almost no chance that Baltimore will ever amount to anything.

Pittsburgh on the other hand sets the bar for each season as thinking this is the year they can get above .500. Since the early 90's Pittsburgh has set the bar at rock bottom and still failed to achieve anything. Pittsburgh is the team that has angered all of its young players in the periods prior to arbitration that they do not have a chance to retain them when they could become free agents. Baltimore just has a bad owner. Pitsburgh has poor management from top to bottom.

Also, look at Leo Mazzone's track record. He has been brilliant in developing starters, but below average in developing relief pitchers.

[darkhorse]

Originally Posted by jerrycapo

Also, look at Leo Mazzone's track record. He has been brilliant in developing starters, but below average in developing relief pitchers.

Nah, don't like that. His effect is more pronounced with starters, but, IIRC, the research showed that he lowers the ERA of relievers about .4 runs on average. Which is still quite brilliant.

[eriqjaffe]

Why the hell the White Sox aren't on that list is absolutely beyond me.