Roger Clemens=the white Barry Bonds

[Jonzard]

Originally Posted by jbergey22

This is a big waste of time...

Work on a remedy to fix the problem and not dwell on the past. This whole deal has turned baseball into a soap opera and its embarrassing.

Mark, is that you?

[Skipaway]

Originally Posted by Jason Moyer

1. He thought he had a conversation with Roger in 1999 where Roger admitted to using HGH.

I think the interesting thing is that he did go ask McNamee about it after Roger Clemens told him about using HGH, and he said McNamee was quite upset because Roger Clemens wasn't supposed to tell anyone.

Those parts are quite convincing.

[Skipaway]

Originally Posted by Jason Moyer

2. In 2005 they had another conversation where Roger denied having ever taken HGH and said that his wife had done it. According to Pettite, he didn't think much of it and assumed that he had misunderstood their previous conversation.

And that conversation only happened because there were hearings in Congress, and Pettitte was thinking about what should he say if he ever got investigated or asked. Under that circumstances, what Clemens said could mean anything.

[RBLwebguy]

Pettite sure says a lot of "you know"'s in his deposition

Hard to believe Rog, when both Pettite and Chuck back the claims of McNamee.

[Skipaway]

Originally Posted by RBLwebguy

Pettite sure says a lot of "you know"'s in his deposition

His words just read very nervous. Probably a good thing he didn't have to show up in front of a big audience.

[Skipaway]

A funny article. It might be quack, but it's funny.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=3244344

[Vezna31]

I thought that was a very interesting article.

[Left-handed Badger]

I always find it ironic that COngressman, the scum that they are, hold these things, and seem to play holier than thou.

[jazzrack]

Originally Posted by Left-handed Badger

I always find it ironic that COngressman, the scum that they are, hold these things, and seem to play holier than thou.

how true, politicians complaining about other peoples lies is very, very funny.

[darkenigma510]

It will be great when this is over and Congress can go back to..you know..legislating and debating important matters....

[Left-handed Badger]

Originally Posted by darkenigma510

It will be great when this is over and Congress can go back to..you know..legislating and debating important matters....

They still do that?

[Tony M]

Were they both under oath yesterday? If so, surely one of them must be lying under oath. What's the punishment for that?

[AnotherAlias]

Originally Posted by RBLwebguy

Hard to believe Rog, when both Pettite and Chuck back the claims of McNamee.

Yeah, the Clemens defense of "Pettite misremembers, or misheard," is quite unbelievable. Clemens appears to be guilty of something...much more than his trainer appears to be.

[Jason Moyer]

Originally Posted by AnotherAlias

Yeah, the Clemens defense of "Pettite misremembers, or misheard," is quite unbelievable.

Even if it's backed up directly by what Pettite said?

Q It sounds like when you -- it sounds like your
recollection of the conversation you had with him in 1999,
you are fairly certain about that, that he told you he used
it. Do you think it's likely that you did misunderstand
what Clemens had told you then? Are you saying you just
didn't want to get into a dispute with him about it so you
dropped the subject?

A I'm saying that I was under the impression that he
told me that he had taken it. And then when Roger told me
that he didn't take it, and I misunderstood him, I took it
for that, that I misunderstood him.

I think Clemens is lying, but I can't see that there's been enough evidence presented to prove it. I also don't really find Pettite's deposition to be particularly damning.

[Jason Moyer]

The part of Andy's deposition that I found most interesting was that it may have presented at least some motive for McNamee wanting to smear Roger's name:

A I just -- I remember that Mac was upset. I just
remember that Mac was upset and he was venting and he was --
you know, he was telling me that that, you know, that Roger,
you know, had done steroids.

Q Do you remember why McNamee was upset?

A Yeah. I believe -- I believe it was -- I believe --
McNamee was working with a company called Invite, who makes
a vitamin, which is a very good product. I still use it
today. It's a good multivitamin. But Mac had asked me and
Roger to do some sponsor promoting for it. And they were
trying to work out deals -- you know, we were trying to work
out a deal, compensation, stuff like that. Well, our
understanding from -- my understanding from Mac was the
company wasn't able to pay us a lot of money, you know, to,
you know, have us, you know, maybe in their little brochure
that they send out and stuff like that. And I just told Mac
that I said, I mean, I don't want any money. If they give
me the vitamin, I think it's a great vitamin. I hadn't been
sick since I had been on this vitamin. And just you know
I'd love to keep taking it. And just give me the vitamin.
I don't want any compensation for it. And I remember Mac
just being extremely mad and saying, you know, that Roger
wanted to get a lot of compensation for it as far as
money-wise. So that's really all I remember about the
conversation, that Mac was kind of venting, you know, just
venting about, you know, that. That's really all I remember
about the conversation.

Q Were you surprised to hear that Clemens -- that
McNamee was saying that Clemens had used steroids?

A Yeah. I mean, that surprised me. But I just kind
of -- to tell you the truth, I just like, just kind of blew
it off. You know Mac would -- Mac would tell me all kinds
of stuff just like anything as far as life. And I just kind
of was an ear for him to chew on. And I just listened to
him and just kind of, you know, acknowledged him and kind of
pacify him and just listened to him gripe.

[Skipaway]

I can see why the congressmen believed Pettitte, and why some of them believed Clemens to be lying.

[KurtBevacqua]

So I'm waiting for some network or sports publication to conduct a poll comparing white vs black baseball fans on what they think about Clemens compared with what they think about Bonds. My suspicion is the numbers would run very close, and in fact I wouldn't be at all surprised if more white fans think Clemens is guilty than think Bonds is guilty. I also wouldn't be surprised if more black fans thought Clemens was innocent than white fans and then maybe we could put this whole racist rant to bed.

[Muppetus Galacticus]

ESPN - Report: Man has photo of Clemens at disputed Canseco party - MLB

The 1998 party at Jose Canseco's house in Miami may have started out as a gathering of friends and family. It has turned into an event worthy of congressional testimony and a source of "evidence."

There is a photo of Roger Clemens at Canseco's house during the June 1998 party, according to the New York Daily News -- a photo that would contradict Clemens' sworn testimony that he never attended the party.

[Skipaway]

The party thing really is just a distraction. It's now a platform of showing credibility, but it really has very little to do with if Clemens used steroids.

[AnotherAlias]

When it comes to establishing credibility, issues regarding whether Clemens is being truthful will come into play.

Looks as though they want to look into Mr. Clemens truthfulness with an official investigation.

SI.com - MLB - Report: Draft letter asks for Clemens probe - Monday February 25, 2008 8:40PM