Roger Clemens=the white Barry Bonds

[Purple Cowboy]

Originally Posted by USN Squid

Did he ever really say "no injections at all?"

I've only heard no HGH or steroid injections.

You're probably right on that considering how careful his non-denial denials have been. Like:

"I did not provide Brian McNamee with any drugs to inject in to my body."

Does this mean he's never done drugs or had injections (probably what his handlers hoped people would infer from this statement) or does it simply mean what it says, McNamee had to get the drugs himself (Clemens wouldn't "provide" them)? The part about Clemens providing the drugs hasn't really been publicized that much has it?

[Skipaway]

Originally Posted by USN Squid

Not really apples to apples.

The trainer said Clemens gave him the steroids to inject; Barry said he didn't know what he was being injected with.

Actually, I think the only difference between this case and Bonds' is that Bonds' trainer didn't come out with a conflicting story.

The only difference between this case and Palmeiro accusing Tejada is no positive test on Clemens.

[abailey3313]

Not sure if it's been posted in here or not yet, but Clemens and McNamee have been called to appear before Congress on Jan. 16.

[Eumel]

Originally Posted by KurtBevacqua

Those damn evil trainers. Just amazing how many evil trainers are shooting up world class athletes with performance enhancing drugs they would never allow into their bodies. Justin Gatlin, Gary Sheffield, Barry Bonds, and now Roger Clemens.

I still think Maurice Greene and his "I had a six pack and sex with my wife to raise my testosterone" excuse is the all-time greatest.

I have to clear Greene's name here. That was Dennis Mitchell

Greene was one of the few top class sprinters without a drug scandal, not that it means much...

[USN Squid]

Originally Posted by Skipaway

Actually, I think the only difference between this case and Bonds' is that Bonds' trainer didn't come out with a conflicting story.

The only difference between this case and Palmeiro accusing Tejada is no positive test on Clemens.

It was never said that Barry handed his trainer anything to inject him with. He was allegedly injected with something he was unaware of.

McNamee has said that Clemens GAVE him the steroids to inject him with.

As for the Palmeiro thing, Raffy said it was a tainted supplement. Clemens is saying it was just B12; it wasn't tainted and it wasn't steroids.

[Skipaway]

Originally Posted by USN Squid

It was never said that Barry handed his trainer anything to inject him with. He was allegedly injected with something he was unaware of.

McNamee has said that Clemens GAVE him the steroids to inject him with.

As for the Palmeiro thing, Raffy said it was a tainted supplement. Clemens is saying it was just B12; it wasn't tainted and it wasn't steroids.

It's really the same as the Bonds case, since Clemens can now reasonably claim that he can't be 100% sure what exactly McNamee injected him. Where did the steroids come from isn't really a key.

For the Palmeiro case, the excuses used by Clemens and Palmeiro are exactly the same. They both claimed they believe they've been injecting B12. The only difference is Palmeiro was then tested by the league for steroids, and Clemens didn't get tested.

[Skipaway]

Bottomlin, the best he could do is to claim that might have been unknowingly injected steroids by McNamee, which he believed to be B12. There really can't be much more guarantee from Clemens, considering he did let McNamee inject him stuff.

[USN Squid]

He's saying it was B12 and Laticane - he's not saying it could have been anything else. Barry claimed ignorance, Raffy claimed a mistake through a tainted supplement. Clemens is saying it was absolutely B12 and Laticane.

[KurtBevacqua]

Originally Posted by Eumel

I have to clear Greene's name here. That was Dennis Mitchell

Greene was one of the few top class sprinters without a drug scandal, not that it means much...

You're right, Mitchell was Greene's rival. My bad. Still far and away the best excuse for failing a drug test, ever.

[Skipaway]

Originally Posted by USN Squid

He's saying it was B12 and Laticane - he's not saying it could have been anything else. Barry claimed ignorance, Raffy claimed a mistake through a tainted supplement. Clemens is saying it was absolutely B12 and Laticane.

And how can he be absolute, if he's not the one injecting it? Especially McNamee said only the steroids injected in the Blue Jays days were provided by Clemens. Later during the Yankees years, McNamee bought the steroids from Radomski.

[Skipaway]

"My body never changed," Clemens says. "If he's putting that stuff up in my body, if what he's saying which is totally false, if he's doing that to me, I should have a third ear coming out of my forehead. I should be pulling tractors with my teeth."

Obviously we already know HGH and steroids won't grow you a third year, but Clemens already laid the ground work of Bonds defense claiming that even if McNamee put something in his body, he didn't know.

[Vezna31]

Here's the thing that sucks: with Barry, we know he took something even if it was "unknowingly". With Roger, there's no real proof yet except for what some person "says". If it turns out that he is innocent, then his reputation will be tarnished for the rest of his life because of some POS trainer and probably will affect his entrance to the HoF. No lawsuit is going to relieve all the frustration and BS he is going to have to go through to try and clear his name.

[Skipaway]

Originally Posted by Vezna31

Here's the thing that sucks: with Barry, we know he took something even if it was "unknowingly". With Roger, there's no real proof yet except for what some person "says". If it turns out that he is innocent, then his reputation will be tarnished for the rest of his life because of some POS trainer and probably will affect his entrance to the HoF. No lawsuit is going to relieve all the frustration and BS he is going to have to go through to try and clear his name.

With Clemens, it's the same. We know he got injections from McNamee, because Clemens said so too.

We also know McNamee is tainted, just like Anderson.

[darkcloud4579]

McNamee had no reason to lie about Clemens and tell the truth about Petitte. This is just Roger trying to protect what semblence of respect he has left in the hopes that he'll never get indicted or that no one will try to get him to admit under oath that he did nothing.

His strategy is smart and he's got the sentiment of people who'll always hate Barry and always defend him on their side. He was well coached these past two weeks in preparation for this interview.

But I'm sure that whatever version that's closest the the truth, will eventually find itself to the surface...

[Skipaway]

Actually McNamee has a very strong incentive not to lie. If Clemens or anybody can prove McNamee to be lying, McNamee would be in a lot of trouble.

Of course, maybe there are some strange reasons for him to lie. Obviously Clemens have no idea what those reasons could be either.

[CommishJoe]

I hear that Congress wants to subpoena all 3. Would be interesting to see what comes out of that mess.

[AnotherAlias]

Originally Posted by darkcloud4579

McNamee had no reason to lie about Clemens and tell the truth about Petitte.

I agree. Clemens has the appearence of someone who is guilty, to me. I always liked him as a player, but I have a hard time putting any faith into what he said in that interview.

IMO, the trainer is telling the truth. If he wasn't, wouldn't we see an instant lawsuit? Clemens line about the expense of a lawsuit is a bunch of crap. The guy has more money than Carter has liver pills. The expense is nothing compared to preserving his reputation.

Shifting to the Vioxx issue was funny. Nice try Rog...

I've made up my mind, he's guilty.

[Purple Cowboy]

Apparently Roger Clemens' team planned a lawsuit to coincide with the 60 Minutes interview. The Daily News says he "has fired the first salvo in his legal war with former trainer Brian McNamee, filing a defamation suit against McNamee Sunday night."

[Tribe Fan 24]

Originally Posted by AnotherAlias

I agree. Clemens has the appearence of someone who is guilty, to me. I always liked him as a player, but I have a hard time putting any faith into what he said in that interview.

IMO, the trainer is telling the truth. If he wasn't, wouldn't we see an instant lawsuit? Clemens line about the expense of a lawsuit is a bunch of crap. The guy has more money than Carter has liver pills. The expense is nothing compared to preserving his reputation.

Shifting to the Vioxx issue was funny. Nice try Rog...

I've made up my mind, he's guilty.

"

My thanks to AA for saying this better than I could!

[KurtBevacqua]

Originally Posted by Purple Cowboy

Apparently Roger Clemens' team planned a lawsuit to coincide with the 60 Minutes interview. The Daily News says he "has fired the first salvo in his legal war with former trainer Brian McNamee, filing a defamation suit against McNamee Sunday night."

Apparently it goes even deeper than that. Granted, this is just a news report, but assuming it's true then Clemens was preparing to attack McNamee before word of what he told the investigation even came out. If Clemens indeed never took steroids, why would he consider arguing as such before the allegations were even made?

This is kind of like OJ's legal team trying to have DNA evidence thrown out before the tests were even completed. Why throw out something that may exhonerate you at a time when supposedly the results are unknown, unless you knew all along what they were going to say?

http://www.fannation.com/truth_and_rumors/mlb#

But well before the Mitchell Report accused Roger Clemens of using steroids, the pitcher and his advisers were working on a battle plan to save his reputation. Clemens knew the report would include scandalous allegations by his pal, Brian McNamee, who told investigators he injected the hurler with steroids and human growth hormone multiple times. Some close to the pitcher advocated a full-out attack even before the report was released on Dec. 13. The idea was to leak news of Clemens' alleged steroid use - and use the opportunity to slam McNamee. The result would have been to question whether the ex-trainer - who has had two drunken-driving arrests, was once accused of rape and faced federal drug charges - could be believed. But Clemens' lawyer, Rusty Hardin, and his agent, Randy Hendricks, rejected that strategy and instead advised the Rocket to stay quiet and endure the fallout.

New York Post