Roger Clemens=the white Barry Bonds

[<Pion>]

Originally Posted by jazzrack

I'm sick of it, Barry gets burried, clemens is given every benifit of the dought. Clemens is generaly liked by the media, Bonds isn't. thats they only difference here.

I don't see where Clemens is given the benefit of the doubt. Every person on TV has said or implied he's being untruthful. If anything, maybe they haven't hammered him as much, but I don't see any free passes yet.

[Vezna31]

After reading the article posted by USN Squid and watching the Clemens video to the right on that page, I feel alot more confident that Roger is innocent. Filing suits and agreeing to speak with Congress, he is facing it head on like a person who doesn't like to be accused of something he didn't do. Good for him. I hope he can prove his innocense.

On the other hand, Barry just smirks and uses ignorance as his excuse. Big difference there.

[Skipaway]

Originally Posted by USN Squid

http://abcnews.go.com/Sports/wireStory?id=4099462

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/colum...1&sportCat=mlb

The Clemens logic: On advice of counsel (and with them listening in), he secretly taped a Jan. 4 phone conversation between himself and former trainer Brian McNamee -- the same McNamee who told government and Mitchell investigators that he injected the seven-time Cy Young winner with steroids and human growth hormone. The tape, which was played to reporters Monday afternoon, supposedly would move the truth needle in Clemens' favor.

Reality: It didn't. The 17-minute phone call resulted in more questions than answers.

Why, when McNamee repeatedly asked, "Roger, what do you want me to do?" didn't Clemens tell his former trainer to appear at the Monday news conference? After all, McNamee offered several times to fly to the Houston area to meet with Clemens.

Why, if McNamee's testimony to the feds was tainted, didn't he say so to Clemens? Why hasn't he said so publicly (McNamee told Clemens he had been offered "seven figures" to tell his story on TV)?

Why, if McNamee was trying to frame Clemens (as Clemens' attorney Rusty Hardin suggested as a possibility), did McNamee tell the pitcher, "I'll go to jail. I'll do whatever you want me to do"?

Hardin reminded reporters Monday that McNamee never "corrected" Clemens when the pitcher told the trainer he was telling "the truth." So? McNamee also never confirmed Clemens was telling the truth, either.

[BaseballMan]

Thats stupid. What was Clemens suppose too tell him? Say that he is innocent.
Once a jury or the media found out that Clemens had told him to say hes innocent, Clemens credibility would have been shot to hell. Clemens did the right the thing and saying just tell the truth.

[Skipaway]

Originally Posted by BaseballMan

Thats stupid. What was Clemens suppose too tell him? Say that he is innocent.
Once a jury or the media found out that Clemens had told him to say hes innocent, Clemens credibility would have been shot to hell. Clemens did the right the thing and saying just tell the truth.

Yeah, in a phone conversation Clemens taped in hope to find something useful for him but failed.

In the mean time:

http://nationalpost.pa-sportsticker....4271199804967A

In a press release issued late Monday, attorneys Earl Ward and Richard Emery claim that McNamee spoke to investigators authorized by Clemens and New York Yankees teammate Andy Pettitte to try and discover what would be in the Mitchell Report.

"Brian told these investigators the same thing he told the federal authorities and Senator Mitchell," the press release said. "It appears that these investigators may have recorded the interview and we hereby demand the tape be released in its entirety immediately."

McNamee's lawyers responded to Clemens' decision to play the tape angrily.

Emery told the New York Daily News that the conversation was supposed to be a "man-to-man talk," but instead Clemens used the tape to try and prove his innocence to the media.

"What does (Clemens) do, he calls him back with his lawyer in the room and a tape recorder going," Emery said. "He wants to play that game, he's going to get buried. I have no compunction about putting him in jail. This is war."

As the fact stands now, Clemens and Pettitte already knew what's going to be on the Mitchell report a week in advance, and he's been planning all kinds of options since then.

[jazzrack]

Originally Posted by Vezna31

After reading the article posted by USN Squid and watching the Clemens video to the right on that page, I feel alot more confident that Roger is innocent. Filing suits and agreeing to speak with Congress, he is facing it head on like a person who doesn't like to be accused of something he didn't do. Good for him. I hope he can prove his innocense.

On the other hand, Barry just smirks and uses ignorance as his excuse. Big difference there.

after watching the press confrence and listening to the tape i am leaning the other way. I wouldn't trust clemens any farther than i could throw him. doesn't mean he did anything, I simply didn't believe him.

and around here he is getting a pass, I havn't followed much national reporting.

and if Barry tried the full court press like Clemens is ding we would never.. ever.. hear the end of the Barry bashing. He is doing the right thing by shutting the hell up. and while i don't find barry's excuse probable, it is at least plausable. I take vitamins by a drop under my tongue. and I've used a ben-gay like product before without reading the label.

[Skipaway]

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/200...ens/index.html

When Clemens claims to have no knowledge that Andy Pettitte -- Clemens' close friend and training partner, and another former client of McNamee -- had twice taken HGH, thus corroborating McNamee's testimony in the Mitchell Report, the trainer interjects, "I believe that."

As the 60 Minutes interview draws to a close, Clemens, who will repeat his denials in a news conference the next day, discusses the possibility of taking a lie detector test. "I think he's the one guy who could probably beat the test," McNamee opines. "He might actually believe that he's telling the truth."

McNamee apparently still admires Clemens very much, so much that he insists that the 45-year-old right-hander belongs in the Hall of Fame. And though his lawyers have threatened a defamation lawsuit against Clemens, McNamee says he hopes it doesn't come to a courtroom. "I'd like it all to just fade away,'' he says. (Word would come late on Sunday night that Clemens had filed a defamation suit of his own.)

But to testify truthfully, McNamee explains, was the only way to avoid prosecution. "I shouldn't have done it,'' he says of his steroid involvement. "I made a mistake. And I stopped it.''

McNamee says no one ever outworked Clemens, but McNamee said under oath that Clemens had artificial help. He saw noted West Coast trainer Greg Anderson go to prison rather than testify about his star client, Barry Bonds. But McNamee has three young children and wouldn't think of choosing Clemens over them. (Though in a taped phone call from last Friday played at Clemens' press conference on Monday afternoon, McNamee would offer to go to jail on Clemens' behalf.)


"Faced with the situation I was faced with, I had no choice,'' McNamee says. "I didn't want to do it. I have a 10-year-old and a 7-year-old and I don't want them taking steroids. I'm embarrassed. I wish I had nothing to do with it.''

McNamee received the first call from the feds way back in May. "I was pretty compelled to tell the truth,'' is the way McNamee put it. "It made me sick,'' he says. 'I was hospitalized for the stress.''

McNamee explains that he was prohibited from revealing to anyone what he had told Mitchell. "It was killing me," he says. "I got sick. I could not talk about it. It was a federal investigation.'' McNamee also explains that at the time he was still reasonably hopeful that none of the names Mitchell learned from him or anyone else would be made public. "Why would I tell Roger or Andy something they might not even find out about?'' he says.

[Skipaway]

So here is what McNamee believes:

1. Clemens might genuinely believe himself to be innocent.
2. McNamee admires Clemens A LOT, even now. He's not enjoying any of these. He was forced to harm his hero.
3. Given his family conditions, he had no choice but to tell the truth. He's no Greg Anderson.

All these are consistent with the phone conversation and what McNamee and Clemens said.

[BaseballMan]

Originally Posted by Skipaway

Yeah, in a phone conversation Clemens taped in hope to find something useful for him but failed.

I disagree. If you listen to the conversation, McNamee sounds like a man
who probably thought he was gonna get a a lot of money and told mitchell what they wanted to hear and but now realizes he is in over his head while Clemens remained calm and cool. Never once did McNamee say i am telling the truth.
Sounded more like he was hoping clemens would offer a deal for him to say that clemens didnt know.

[USN Squid]

Here's what bothers me about McNamee (from the official lawsuit filing):

[Skipaway]

Originally Posted by BaseballMan

I disagree. If you listen to the conversation, McNamee sounds like a man
who probably thought he was gonna get a a lot of money and told mitchell what they wanted to hear and but now realizes he is in over his head while Clemens remained calm and cool. Never once did McNamee say i am telling the truth.
Sounded more like he was hoping clemens would offer a deal for him to say that clemens didnt know.

What he sounds like is simply your personal opinion.

Of course Clemens remained calm and cool, because he was sitting in a room full of lawyers and taping equipments.

[silvam14]

I don't get why Clemens would need to shoot lidocaine into his arse.

Anyone?

[Skipaway]

Originally Posted by USN Squid

Here's what bothers me about McNamee (from the official lawsuit filing):

And that part can be read in a lot of different ways, since you can say McNamee was afraid the Feds already knew the truth, so he had to talk. Or you can say the Feds are trying to frame Clemens.

There is nothing conclusive from that. If that's the best Clemens can do, Clemens really have very little in this lawsuit.

In the mean time, it would be interesting to know what the feds got.

[USN Squid]

Originally Posted by Skipaway

If that's the best Clemens can do, Clemens really have very little in this lawsuit.

As you can see, that's only section 27 of the suit.

Here's all 14 pages.

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive...1clemens1.html

[Skipaway]

Originally Posted by USN Squid

As you can see, that's only section 27 of the suit.

Here's all 14 pages.

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive...1clemens1.html

Yeah, but section 27 is also the strongest point.

All the others are similar to stuff what ESPN said about scouts from five teams considered Clemens to be done in 1998. Surely that's interesting, but not exactly convincing people of anything.

[Purple Cowboy]

Roger seems like he wants to crack and blurt out the truth he's just afraid of all the money he's going to lose.

[BaseballMan]

Originally Posted by Skipaway

What he sounds like is simply your personal opinion.

Of course Clemens remained calm and cool, because he was sitting in a room full of lawyers and taping equipments.

Cant blame clemens there. It would be stupid not to have his lawyers there.
Im not even sure if McNamee knows what the tuth is. You dont beg someone to tell you what to do if you know they are guilty. You tell them they are a liar and you are telling the truth. By trying to get clemens to tell him what to say it makes me wonder did he say the same thing to mitchell? Where do we know for sure that McNamee said something because it was the truth as he saw it.

[USN Squid]

Originally Posted by Skipaway

Yeah, but section 27 is also the strongest point.

All the others are similar to stuff what ESPN said about scouts from five teams considered Clemens to be done in 1998. Surely that's interesting, but not exactly convincing people of anything.

Seems like you either didn't read it or you stopped at page 2 or 3.

Section 20 for example is rather interesting.

[Skipaway]

Originally Posted by USN Squid

Seems like you either didn't read it or you stopped at page 2 or 3.

Section 20 for example is rather interesting.

In which way? It got absolutely nothing to do with steroids.

Maybe you are hinting that Clemens intentionally hired him back to inject steroids, knowing he already knows ways to destroy McNamee's credibility when needed?

[Purple Cowboy]

The other bad news from yesterday - I'm sure his petulant stance about baseball records and the Hall of Fame specifically put many on-the-fence voters into the anti-Clemens camp.