Need to know more about 2 kinds of pitches.

[Left-handed Badger]

I've been studying pitches lately but 2 I havent been able to wrap my head around:


1) Gyroball- I find info on how it is thrown. But, I never seem to get anything specific on what it does movement wise. Perhaps what pitch would be similar.

2) The old shineball- Never quite got what it was supposed to do exactly either.

[kq76]

Originally Posted by Left-handed Badger

I've been studying pitches lately but 2 I havent been able to wrap my head around:


1) Gyroball- I find info on how it is thrown. But, I never seem to get anything specific on what it does movement wise. Perhaps what pitch would be similar.

It's movement is like a thrown football with its sidespin.

Slate has a great article on it with a link to a slo-mo of it.

[kq76]

Originally Posted by Left-handed Badger

2) The old shineball- Never quite got what it was supposed to do exactly either.

It doesn't explain it to me, but maybe this helps:

Eller had a dirty little secret – a pitch called the shineball which involved dirt, spit and some hard rubbing. The result was a pitch that fluttered as it approached the plate.

MAJOR BASEBALL | FAVORITE NAMES

"Flutter"? Like a butterfly?

[Left-handed Badger]

Originally Posted by kq76

It's movement is like a thrown football with its sidespin.

Slate has a great article on it with a link to a slo-mo of it.

So, slider-ish like pitch?

I might look at the slo-mo tomorrow. Being on dial-up, it might take awhile.

[Left-handed Badger]

Originally Posted by kq76

It doesn't explain it to me, but maybe this helps:



MAJOR BASEBALL | FAVORITE NAMES

"Flutter"? Like a butterfly?
[/font]

This does make me think it was basically a spitball with another name, possibly.


Thanks for the help both of you.

[Astros33Resurrected]

gyro ball is a pumped up slider. basically it is supposed to "ignore gravity". ITs more of a 9-3 curve rather than a 12-6 . It breaks hard and flat. its supposed to be hard to control though.

[Renner]

Shine Ball - from The Dickson Baseball Dictionary

"A ball that the pitcher renders especially smooth by rubbing it hard on his glove or doctoring it with a foreign substance such as talcum powder. Such shining or polishing, which helps the ball curve when thrown, has been illegal since 1920. Eddie Cicotte is said to have developed the shine ball in 1915 when he discovered that the ball did funny things after he rubbed to a shine on his uniform. Gerald Secor Couzens reports in his Baseball Album: 'probably invented by Dave Darforth (sic - Dave Danforth) in 1915 while pitching for Lousiville in the American Association. Oil was used on the field to control the dust problem, and the innovative Danforth discovered that by rubbing the oil-and-dirt-covered ball on his trouser leg the ball became smooth and shiny and hopped when he pitched it.'"

From my own research it seems that such types of pitches were against the rules even pre-1920. In this New York Times article from October 3, 1919, Reds Pitcher Slim Sallee comments on the statement that he throws the shine ball, "You will never see me getting fined five dollars for dirtying a new ball."
http://query.nytimes.com/mem/archive...669D946896D6CF

From the Spalding Guide 1917, "Rule 67, Section 2: The umpire shall assess a fine of $5.00 against each offending player in the following cases: (1) If the player intentionally discolor or damage the ball..."
Sounds like a fine, but not an ejection under the rules of the time...sorry for the digression.
Spalding Base Ball Guides, 1889 - 1939