Cubs outfield Options

[mgom27]

Jim Edmonds is the hot rumor right know.

[tysok]

Originally Posted by mgom27

Giants Randy Winn for Gallagher,Eric Patterson,Hill,McGehee The Giants get a future Catcher,2B,SP and 1B and Cubs get a CF or RF
Reds Adam Dunn or Ryan Feel for the same above minus Patterson replace him with another Pitcher and Outfielder if you get Dunn but if you get Feel keep Patterson in the deal.
Sign Dave Roberts.

Need to put some more care in your posts, had to read that like 50 times to figure out what it was you were actually saying.

Adam Dunn is a useless pile, I wouldn't care for anyone who struck out as often as he does.
Ryan Freel doesn't give you much more than what Pie looks to, but you get a guy that's 10 years older.
Randy Winn is the best guy you have up there, but again you trade away youth for an old man.

Other than Pie, is there something wrong with the Cubs OF? Soriano is having problems actually hitting the ball or doing anything useful offensively so far but I wouldn't be ready to toss him in the trash yet. Fukodome is doing quite well. That leaves Pie...

Either way their offense isn't the problem right now, if you can even say they actually have a problem. They're in second place to the Cardinals which are just red hot and playing above their abilities (or so it would seem).
Tied for 6th in the league in HRs, 3rd in BA, 1st in OBP, 5th in SLG and 1st in runs scored.
For pitching, they're 5th in the league in R/G, and 5th in ERA.

[mikev]

Originally Posted by tysok

Adam Dunn is a useless pile, I wouldn't care for anyone who struck out as often as he does.

Err...

Sure, he's a horrid defender, but I'd say that a .380 OBP and 40 homers a year are quite the opposite of "useless"

[tysok]

Originally Posted by mikev

Err...

Sure, he's a horrid defender, but I'd say that a .380 OBP and 40 homers a year are quite the opposite of "useless"

True, but way too many strike outs IMO. He walks 100 times, and strike outs 150+... that's 250 PA where the ball isn't put in play. Go strike out somewhere else.

[mikev]

So you're saying if it was 100 walks, 100 strikeouts, and 50 weak grounders to second base you'd be OK with him?

[tysok]

Originally Posted by mikev

So you're saying if it was 100 walks, 100 strikeouts, and 50 weak grounders to second base you'd be OK with him?

I'm saying he strikes out to dang much.
If he comes up with a guy on second or third and hits a weak grounder to second you then have a guy on third or a run in.... if he comes up in the same situation and strikes out you still have a guy on second or third but gain an extra out.
He hits .240 to .260, if he put the freaking ball in play on occasion he would probably be .250+ to .270+ easily.

A strikeout doesn't help anyone but the defense. So sure, strike out 100 times, walk 100 times, and actually put the bat on the ball the 50 or 60 other times instead of K for ground outs and I'd be okay with him.

[mikev]

It's funny, I was just having this exact same type of conversation on another board.

Lots of people who are a lot smarter than me have already crunched numbers, like in this BP article and it proves that there is very little difference between a strikeout and any other out, with regards to producing runs.

[CHCfan]

Originally Posted by tysok

I'm saying he strikes out to dang much.
If he comes up with a guy on second or third and hits a weak grounder to second you then have a guy on third or a run in.... if he comes up in the same situation and strikes out you still have a guy on second or third but gain an extra out.
He hits .240 to .260, if he put the freaking ball in play on occasion he would probably be .250+ to .270+ easily.

A strikeout doesn't help anyone but the defense. So sure, strike out 100 times, walk 100 times, and actually put the bat on the ball the 50 or 60 other times instead of K for ground outs and I'd be okay with him.

Perhaps. But would he neccesarily be as productive for his team?

You talk about a situation with a runner on second or third with less than two outs . . . yet make no mention of a runner on first (more likely than the other two possibilities). Putting the ball in play has it's disadvatages, too: double plays. The hitters ulitmate goal is to not create outs; this is why walks are so great, by extending the inning without even hitting the ball, and why double plays are so bad. Two outs in one swing.

[tysok]

Originally Posted by mikev

It's funny, I was just having this exact same type of conversation on another board.

Lots of people who are a lot smarter than me have already crunched numbers, like in this BP article and it proves that there is very little difference between a strikeout and any other out, with regards to producing runs.

The question isn't if you can be productive while striking out a lot. That's obvious. It's not even whether you team can score a lot of runs while you walk back and forth between the dugout and the plate.

The question is if he's as productive as a similar player that doesn't strike out as often. Could be, could be not.

Another point for Dunn would be that he's yet to play with a team that was anywhere near good. Since his rookie season to now, he's the only Red to get more than 100 RBI... obviously if he doesn't do it it doesn't get done. Could be why he swings for the fences all the time and strikes out so often, the rest of his club sits around waiting for him to do something.

Since, for the most part, the worst offenders at GIDP end up with around 20... and Dunn usually grounds into 8-10 anyhow, I'm not likely to worry too much about more double plays from him. At the same time, his swing and his power would more likely result in fly outs, or if not then they are probably hard hit grounders that may very well end up with 10-15 more DPs per year, but also more line drive hits and grounders that go through for singles.
Beyond that, looking at the worst offenders of GIDP I seriously doubt there was anyone that was saying "Man, I wish he'd strike out more often instead."
Cal Ripken, Hank Aaron, Carl Yaz, Dave Winfield, Eddie Murray, and Jim Rice. Rice with over 30 per season 3 times.

I would rather take my chances and make the defense do their jobs. Before anyone can say it, no I wouldn't want Ryan Howard either.

It's personal preference. Yes you CAN be productive and strike out on average well more than 1 time per game... of course they can, if you had a Juan Pierre striking out 160-200 times a year he'd be in AAA instead. It's could he be more productive if he wasn't spending so often just displacing air... I think so. It's something that can't be studied and proven, his at bat is over... we can't go back and have him make contact instead.

[dsvitak]

Originally Posted by tysok

True, but way too many strike outs IMO. He walks 100 times, and strike outs 150+... that's 250 PA where the ball isn't put in play. Go strike out somewhere else.

Strikeouts are better than double plays.

Strikeouts are not seen to be as bad as they used to be.

OBP is high, SLG is high, sign 'em UP!

[Raderick]

Originally Posted by mgom27

Giants Randy Winn for Gallagher,Eric Patterson,Hill,McGehee The Giants get a future Catcher,2B,SP and 1B and Cubs get a CF or RF
Reds Adam Dunn or Ryan Feel for the same above minus Patterson replace him with another Pitcher and Outfielder if you get Dunn but if you get Feel keep Patterson in the deal.
Sign Dave Roberts.

Will they be moving to P.Rico anytime soon?