Report: A-Rod tested positive in 2003

[edog23]

Well, with A-rod's name on the list, I gotta wonder if Albert Pujols is next to get his name on the blotter. I'm becoming numb to all of this and at this point, I have no real opinion anymore about this stuff. Whether these guys did something wrong or not, I'm still a fan of most of these guys and I still love the game of baseball so I'm over it.

[mrskippy]

Originally Posted by Carplos

There is no penalty to be handed out, he tested positive before there were consequences for using steroids (at least w/r/t to baseball.)

Ignoring the fact it's a witch hunt--the gov't isn't technically pursuing Bonds cause he used steroids, they're doing it because he lied under oath.

In that case the judge pretty much is throwing out 99.9 percent of the evidence, because the prosecution is operating on hearsay. Bonds rightfully should walk, unless the jury pretty much decides to railroad him.

I think the problem is that you notice they only go after baseball. I would put good money that the steroid abuse is far, far more rampant in the NFL. Since certain types of steroids can be used as an anti-inflammatory (something a football player certainly would need), the NFL seems like they good be a breeding ground for use. I wouldn't be surprised if players like Big Ben (he has had a major need for anti-inflammatory drugs in the recent past) used steroids. But, since the NFL is now the new American pastime (I still don't understand why, since baseball is a much more enjoyable sport), nobody goes after it. The revenues generated are too high.

The sad thing is, MLB isn't the one doing the witch hunting. It is the Feds.

[mrskippy]

Originally Posted by edog23

Well, with A-rod's name on the list, I gotta wonder if Albert Pujols is next to get his name on the blotter. I'm becoming numb to all of this and at this point, I have no real opinion anymore about this stuff. Whether these guys did something wrong or not, I'm still a fan of most of these guys and I still love the game of baseball so I'm over it.

"

[Legacyof22]

Through this entire ordeal, with Bonds, Sosa, McGwire, Canseco, and everyone else, the only thing in my mind keeping Baseball going was the fact that A-Rod was the best without steroids. I don't think I could find anyone that could fill the void left by A-Rod. Baseball has lost another star.

[glenn]

Originally Posted by edog23

Well, with A-rod's name on the list, I gotta wonder if Albert Pujols is next to get his name on the blotter. I'm becoming numb to all of this and at this point, I have no real opinion anymore about this stuff. Whether these guys did something wrong or not, I'm still a fan of most of these guys and I still love the game of baseball so I'm over it.

Well said. At this point, who cares anymore. I'm of the opinion everyone was doing it, so it is hard to be shocked when you hear anyone's name anymore, or even really care anymore.

Of course, it gives you a lot of faith in the system that anonymous tests get leaked to the press, or the players union was supposedly tipping off players on when the tests would occur. What annoys me more is everyone in baseball is shocked that there was a problem, and nobody saw anything. How stupid do they think everyone is?

But in the end, I love baseball too much.

[Bluenoser]

Originally Posted by Legacyof22

Through this entire ordeal, with Bonds, Sosa, McGwire, Canseco, and everyone else, the only thing in my mind keeping Baseball going was the fact that A-Rod was the best without steroids. I don't think I could find anyone that could fill the void left by A-Rod. Baseball has lost another star.

Well, I always liked Griffey Jr and was glad his name never came up during all the finger pointing. I always believed that had he not been injured so much he would have hit 700 Hr's. I'm now beginning to believe one of the reasons his name never came up is because he was off with injuries so much and just slipped under the radar.

I really hope not, I really hope he's clean. However, it's almost impossible not to be at least somewhat skeptical of anyone who's hit 600+ Hr's.

Personaly, I wish they'd just move on from all this. They now have some good rules against use in place, and as long as they enforce them strictly, I'm happy to move on and start enjoying the game again. That's not to say I condone what went on, it's just saying that I'm really quite sick of hearing about it and want to "enjoy" the game, not scrutinise and criticise it.

The justice system can go ahead and deal with the cheaters as far as I'm concerned, I just hope they have a 100 years or so to spare because it's going to take that long to find out who all was involved. And BTW, don't bore me with the details about who did and who didn't, just enforce the current laws and let me enjoy the game again.

Thank you.

[mrskippy]

I think that if the majority are using steroids, ultimately it will help the case of players like McGwire, Bonds, Sosa, Clemens, etc. in terms of HOF induction, because these players will be considered the best of their era (Steroid Era). Plus, you have to figure that A) Steroids have been around much longer than the past 10-12 years of massive home run hitting and B) Amphetamine use was fairly rampant before the 80s, back in the 60s and 70s, if not before. The use of PEDs in MLB (or in sport) is nothing new. The only difference now is that it is frowned upon, whereas it used to be swept under the rug.

I still think many of these players are the best of the modern era and certainly amongst the best to ever play. For many of them they probably still would have been great even without PEDs -- just not at the levels they reached.

I think if Pujols is named, it changes things. And, what about Griffey Jr.? If you start hearing those names, it really makes everything moot. At that point, you induct McGwire, Bonds, Sosa, etc., on the merits of what they accomplished and that they were the best of their time.

[Russ]

Although it was too late, i'm satisfied with what MLB has done to rid the game of PEDs. This rehashing the **** is pointless. Everybody did it, or at least a higher than thought of percentage, and the game has survived and advanced. So have I.

[jazzrack]

i'm gonna be consistant here and say, so

[kq76]

Originally Posted by mrskippy

I think that if the majority are using steroids, ultimately it will help the case of players like McGwire, Bonds, Sosa, Clemens, etc. in terms of HOF induction, because these players will be considered the best of their era (Steroid Era). Plus, you have to figure that A) Steroids have been around much longer than the past 10-12 years of massive home run hitting and B) Amphetamine use was fairly rampant before the 80s, back in the 60s and 70s, if not before. The use of PEDs in MLB (or in sport) is nothing new. The only difference now is that it is frowned upon, whereas it used to be swept under the rug.

I still think many of these players are the best of the modern era and certainly amongst the best to ever play. For many of them they probably still would have been great even without PEDs -- just not at the levels they reached.

I think if Pujols is named, it changes things. And, what about Griffey Jr.? If you start hearing those names, it really makes everything moot. At that point, you induct McGwire, Bonds, Sosa, etc., on the merits of what they accomplished and that they were the best of their time.

I don't think so at all. Oh, 95% took steroids so we should just accept them and give them the same accolades as we gave previous generations. Pfft! What about the 5% who didn't take anything, but played their hearts out instead only to get over-shadowed by those who did take? No, I say if we can't separate the takers from the non-takers and only honour the latter then we put a big black mark on this entire period of baseball history and try to move forward.

The real problem I have is when can we move forward? Is the game really clean now or will get clean any time soon? I doubt it. With testing being open like it is now it's probably even easier to devise steroids that will pass the tests and with how brazen MLBPA officials like Gene Orza were at warning guys of upcoming tests what's to say that will stop. There's too much money at stake for them not to find a way around it. Just look at the NFL. I'd say it's pretty obvious most of those guys are taking yet only a few token players get caught and I'd say it's probably back-handed punishment for something else they've done wrong. The only people in the game of baseball with any real incentive to put an end to steroids are those players who don't want to use and how are they supposed to put an end to it, especially if they're in the minority.

As for A-Rod, I'm surprised that anybody is surprised by this development. He's not exactly known for high ethical standards and good clubhouse rapport. He openly cheats on his wife, Canseco tells all about ARod, Torre says how the clubhouse called him AFraud, the guy is one cycle away from looking like Bonds, the Yankees repeatedly win championships before him, but not with him, what more do you want?

About the only player who would surprise me as being a user is John McDonald and even him I might not be surprised by as he did have that injury and one lost step on defense could very well mean he's out of the league. I don't think anyone should really be exempt from suspicion anymore, especially not players like ARod.

[Cooleyvol]

I wasnt aware ARod testified and presumably lied to the Grand Jury. Bonds, however, is accused of just that.

There was no penalty for usage at the time of these tests, so only those who have lied to a GJ will be tried.

[Prodigal Son]

I'm just saddened for Fred McGriff.

[Jason Moyer]

Originally Posted by mrskippy

I think that if the majority are using steroids, ultimately it will help the case of players like McGwire, Bonds, Sosa, Clemens, etc. in terms of HOF induction, because these players will be considered the best of their era (Steroid Era).

I highly doubt many players care about the hall of fame other than the fat speaking/endorsement checks they can make putting it on their resume. I know I'd be a lot more impressed if I were named an alltime great by the fans or by my peers or by people who study the game or by the broadcasters than by a handful of guys who are only allowed to vote because they work in a medium that's been obsolete for over 10 years.

[Jonzard]

Originally Posted by Prodigal Son

I'm just saddened for Fred McGriff.

Tom Emanski is waaaay worse than steroids. Such an unfair advantage!

[Legacyof22]

Of course, there is the Player's Union and how they tipped of players of test. This is a violation of the contract. Now that the union has lead players into trouble, maybe the players will start disagreeing with them. Scott Boras' nightmare.

My God! I'm watching professional baseball crumble before my very eyes!

[Jason Moyer]

Originally Posted by Prodigal Son

I'm just saddened for Fred McGriff.

Why, he could have been taking too. Really all of the people who everyone cites as heroes are as likely to have taken **** as anyone else. Is it coincidence that Griffey Jr's power totals shot through the roof and then a few years later he was constantly injured?

The only actual important things to take from the "steroid era" (which should encompass 1960-2004, and not the laughable era most people define which would start roughly 8 years after Canseco/McGwire were in the big leagues) are that 1.) nearly every baseball player was taking something that would result in a suspension under current MLB rules (and yes, that includes Willie Mays and Hank Aaron and Mike Schmidt, who all would have received suspensions if they played now) 2.) that baseball (and the fans/media) should have been aware of this problem by the 70's but nothing happened because they didn't have a villain and baseball is incapable of policing itself and 3.) that anabolic steroids and amphetamines should be banned from all sports, which they have been for years outside of baseball (and frankly, I'm less concerned about HGH until there's some conclusive scientific evidence showing that it's harmful).

[Prodigal Son]

McGriff didn't take, man. That's crazy talk. The guy should be in the Hall.

[Jason Moyer]

I don't know that, you don't know that, and no one besides Fred McGriff and his trainer know that. He should have probably gotten into the hall before Jim Rice, though.

[statman]

As a long time baseball fan growing up with the Mantle's, Mays and my personal favorite Luis Aparicio it changes nothing for me. No matter where you are in life there will always be cheaters. It just seems in todays world there are either more cheaters than 40 years ago or there are more ways to catch them.

There are things I don't like about today's game such as the cheating, the prices to get you a seat or the high salaries. But it is a game I grew up playing every day and many of them became my personal hero's. I still love the game, just not as much as I would like to. Thank you OOTP for making baseball more real for me.

[Prodigal Son]

Originally Posted by Jason Moyer

I don't know that, you don't know that, and no one besides Fred McGriff and his trainer know that. He should have probably gotten into the hall before Jim Rice, though.

Dude, I know. You know. Look at him. He's Fred McGriff. He wasn't all bulked up like a bowling ball like A-Rod, Pujols, Mark Lemke, Bonds, Clemens, Angel Berroa, and every other juicer. He's Fred McGriff. Straight-billed, Tom Emanski buy now Fred McGriff. The crime dog. The crime dog can't violate the law. He got the name crime dog because he sniffed out steroids in the locker room and urinated on them. Fred McGriff = clean. Fred McGriff = clean = Hall of Fame.