Report: A-Rod tested positive in 2003

[mikev]

Originally Posted by Russ

No, he was always roiding and Cal was his workout partner the whole time they were both in Baltimore. He must have got his cycles right that year.

If you're joking -- well played.

If you're serious -- I'm not sure you fully understand what steroids do. It would basically be impossible for that single season increase to be attributed to steroid use.

Originally Posted by BaseballMan

Yeah i always thought Brady Anderson because didnt he go from like 20 hrs to 50 and back to 20. Would steroids do that? Hard to beleive he would have just taken them one year.

No, they wouldn't do that.

[Russ]

Originally Posted by mikev

If you're joking -- well played.

If you're serious -- I'm not sure you fully understand what steroids do. It would basically be impossible for that single season increase to be attributed to steroid use.



No, they wouldn't do that.

I was kidding, but that dude was a specimen.

[jazzrack]

so i was watching some talking head discuss the HOF and a-rod and this guy actually said that character & integrity count for the HOF. now if this were true you would have to toss a large number of players out of the HOF because it is littered with vile human beings

[RchW]

Originally Posted by Skipaway

I wouldn't really call it mild. Coffee can be pretty strong too, and you can overdose coffee and Ritalin.

From the horses mouth. The Clinical data sheet.

DESCRIPTION
Ritalin hydrochloride, methylphenidate hydrochloride USP, is a mild central nervous system
(CNS) stimulant, available as tablets of 5, 10, and 20 mg for oral administration; Ritalin-SR is
available as sustained-release tablets of 20 mg for oral administration. Methylphenidate
hydrochloride is methyl α-phenyl-2-piperidineacetate hydrochloride, and its structural formula
is

Of course you can overdose. I was simply pointing out that as a stimulant, Ritalin is not particularly stimulating. For those in the hyperactive subset of ADD the effect is entirely opposite.

For most people the vast array of stimulants out on the market would be more powerful than ritalin, including caffeine or nicotine.

[Skipaway]

Originally Posted by RchW

From the horses mouth. The Clinical data sheet.

Of course you can overdose. I was simply pointing out that as a stimulant, Ritalin is not particularly stimulating. For those in the hyperactive subset of ADD the effect is entirely opposite.

For most people the vast array of stimulants out on the market would be more powerful than ritalin, including caffeine or nicotine.

But that doesn't change the fact that a mild stimulant could greatly enhance a person's performance, just like how a lot of people wouldn't function well without coffee. I don't really know what's the point you are trying to make. You surely can't say that Ritalin would do nothing for people.

[Jason Moyer]

I don't understand why/how Ritalin would work any differently in people with ADD than everyone else. I was always under the impression that the reason it was prescribed to ADD patients was because it increases your focus/concentration, which is exactly what every other variant of speed does.

[BaseballMan]

Originally Posted by mikev

If you're joking -- well played.

If you're serious -- I'm not sure you fully understand what steroids do. It would basically be impossible for that single season increase to be attributed to steroid use.



No, they wouldn't do that.

Ok but then why are people pointing to Barry Bond's 73 hr season and acting as if it is impossible when he had been hitting close to 40 hr almost every year and newer ballparks and expansion? Why does Brady get a free ride and Bonds season has to be because of steroids?

[Carplos]

Because people don't like Barry Bonds.

[Russ]

Originally Posted by Carplos

Because people don't like Barry Bonds.

there's also that small issue of there actually being evidence against Bonds.

[Carplos]

But that has nothing to do with it. He wouldn't be at the head of the class for steroids if he was well liked. Look at Clemens, how often is he talked about now? It passed, for the most part. Nothing said by him or McNeely even make headlines now (or they at least don't get as much talk as they did at first.) How long has Bonds been the headliner?

Wasn't Brady Anderson named in the Mitchell report? True, it's all 'hearsay', but the evidence against Bonds is tests that were supposed to be anonymous, and testimony all supposed to be sealed. (Well, and a giant head.)

Honestly, I hope the MLBPA rapes the Federal Gov't in court, although I doubt they will.

[Carplos]

Also it's nice to see certain members of Congress has their eyes on the ball, let's call in A-Rod, more testimony! Yay!

At this point I want a Spartacus thing to happen, and everyone who played MLB in the last 20 years comes out and says "I did steroids!" and then let's see if they want everyone to come in and testify.

[Delgadodawg]

Originally Posted by BaseballMan

Well how much mention has the borderline players who were actually caught been given ? No its only Bonds, Clemens, A-Rod etc. You cant have it both ways. You cant say it helped the superstars performance but didnt do squat for that non superstar. If anything it should have turned average players into great players. Maybe not superstars but at least great player
but have we really seen this or is it only when a player has say 50+hrs that he must be receiving the benefits of steroids.

I think this whole steroids controversy is a waste of time. You cant change the past. Do we even know for sure how much it can help a player?
Theres always been and always will be cheating in baseball. If they ban these players from the hof should they ban people like John McGraw? The guy tried to ban the umpires from a game and put his own players as the umpires. But he never took steroids so he never tried to cheat.

Its useless to continue this witch hunt. We will never know for sure who took what. They have rules and better testing. Why not just move on and enjoy the game. When someone gets caught and they dont do anything aboutit then i can see complaining.
But if MLB had these tests in 2003 shouldnt they be taking most of the blame for letting it continue? Isnt that kinda like instead of taking a drug test for a new job they want your tests results from 7 years ago. Sure the players are still responsible but i just think we need to stop finger pointing and look to the future.

Players have always cheated. What makes this era so different than the past?
They didnt throw any games. They still had to run, hit and catch the ball. Can you tell me exactly how many stats are due to steroids? If not then why cry over spilled milk? Its done. Just move on already.

I am not trying to have it both ways.. My only point is I would be shocked if Petitte only took them once and I didn't think anybody actually bought his BS story.

Do you actually think that drugs (steroids, HGH etc.) would have the exact same effect on everyone who took them?? Possibly, players like Petitte would have never even made the majors. But like you said, who are we to know how much they help or don't help. (Although I am guessing they help quite a bit)

I too would like to move on from this era and yes it isn't exactly fair that the superstar players take all the heat, while the borderline players slip under the radar.

[Carplos]

Do you actually think that drugs (steroids, HGH etc.) would have the exact same effect on everyone who took them?? Possibly, players like Petitte would have never even made the majors. But like you said, who are we to know how much they help or don't help. (Although I am guessing they help quite a bit)

This is ridiculous. Steroids or HGH aren't going to change the overall talent of a pitcher. It's not gonna give them more movement or a significant increase in velocity. You're not gonna develop a Mussina curve or Rivera cutter because of drugs. They will help you recover from injuries better--which could in turn make the majors more likely for on-the-line players, but doubtful it helped Pettitte beyond health reasons.

[Delgadodawg]

Originally Posted by Carplos

This is ridiculous. Steroids or HGH aren't going to change the overall talent of a pitcher. It's not gonna give them more movement or a significant increase in velocity. You're not gonna develop a Mussina curve or Rivera cutter because of drugs. They will help you recover from injuries better--which could in turn make the majors more likely for on-the-line players, but doubtful it helped Pettitte beyond health reasons.

Yeah I didn't mean to say that they will make a significant talent upgrade for pitchers (although i think it could help a bit), but definitely in staying healthy and recuperating from injuries.

[Jason Moyer]

I don't see why anabolic steroids or hgh would have less of a performance effect for pitchers, and in fact I'd argue that they'd have more of one since pitchers are more susceptible to injuries related to fatigue.

[BaseballMan]

Originally Posted by Delgadodawg

I am not trying to have it both ways.. My only point is I would be shocked if Petitte only took them once and I didn't think anybody actually bought his BS story.

Do you actually think that drugs (steroids, HGH etc.) would have the exact same effect on everyone who took them?? Possibly, players like Petitte would have never even made the majors. But like you said, who are we to know how much they help or don't help. (Although I am guessing they help quite a bit)

I too would like to move on from this era and yes it isn't exactly fair that the superstar players take all the heat, while the borderline players slip under the radar.

I was just thinking that what if the steroids were of a better benefit for the average players than the superstars. I just dont think Pettite was taking the steroids very long because im not sure there is anything suspicious about his career. Hes always been a little overrated to begin
with. Plus i dont see any seasons that could stand out like Bonds or A-Rod.
If it was more than once or never then why didnt he try to fight it or kept denieing it? Plus i havent heard the accusers say he was lieing about only using it once.
Yeah i know players lie but once in a blue moon they do tell the truth.