Browns fans - it's ok to hate the Soldier again

[Go Tribe]

Winslow dealt to Tampa for undisclosed picks

Wish it would have been Anderson though

[Tribe Fan 24]

Originally Posted by Go Tribe

Winslow dealt to Tampa for undisclosed picks

Wish it would have been Anderson though

WOW! I didn't see that one happening this year! I wonder who will replace him?

[Tribe Fan 24]

Linky??

[Tribe Fan 24]

Linky

Browns trade tight end Winslow to Bucs for undisclosed draft picks

[Bobbuttons]

Wish they would disclose the picks. Would like to know what they got.

[Recte44]

Rucker's a pretty good prospect there, the Browns also have Heiden. They're ok at TE.

Good move by the new regime to get some draft picks. Not sure what Tampa is thinking- I guess it depends on what the picks are.

[Go Tribe]

Originally Posted by Bobbuttons

Wish they would disclose the picks. Would like to know what they got.

Terry Pluto is saying that one is 2nd rounder this year and the other undisclosed in 2010

[Recte44]

Yeah, if that's the case as I thought it might be, you've gotta wonder what the hell the Bucs are doing.

[Bobbuttons]

Originally Posted by Go Tribe

Terry Pluto is saying that one is 2nd rounder this year and the other undisclosed in 2010

Ha. They picked up this second rounder just so they can take Clay Matthews' son.

[Go Tribe]

2nd rounder this year - 5th rounder in 2010

[jbergey22]

Out of curiousity are you guys happy he is gone because he was a troublemaker or did you feel he was over rated as tight end? I ask because it seems like he could be a franchise tight end if he would get his head screwed on right. In watching the Browns a few times this year it seemed to me Braylon Edwards was the biggest disappointment on the team of course its a small sample size and I dont read too much about the other developments with the Browns.

[Bobbuttons]

I'm not happy he's gone. I just mentioned that he was gone. Frankly, I think it's going to be impossible to replace his hands. He was as sure a receiving tight end as you can find. I think Tampa got a good deal IF Winslow can stay relatively healthy (because he'll play through the small stuff and still be very effective) and he and his new agent Drew Rosenhaus don't ask for a whole lot more when they start asking Tampa to rework his deal.

[phightin]

If what the bucs gave a 2nd round pick in 09 and a third round in 10 (which is what I believe it was) to get him than it seems this was a fairly good deal for both teams. The bucs got what still could be a superstar tight end to use in what appears is going to be a very offensive oriented team, while the browns get some decent picks while clearing up cap space. The browns have so many more problems right now than keeping winslow that they might as well just go with the whole tear down approach. They better realize though that they will go nowhere fast with the two qbs they have now. Quinn was just an awful awful pick.

[Bobbuttons]

Originally Posted by phightin

Quinn was just an awful awful pick.

And you are basing this on what exactly?

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by Bobbuttons

And you are basing this on what exactly?

I was wondering this same thing. Looked pretty good last year in the limited time he played IMO. I wanted the Vikings to take him the year he was drafted instead we got Adrian Peterson(hard to complain about that) but from what I seen from Quinn in college he has the X factor that very few QBs have. Matt Ryan is another one that seems to have it.

[Bobbuttons]

Originally Posted by jbergey22

I was wondering this same thing. Looked pretty good last year in the limited time he played IMO. I wanted the Vikings to take him the year he was drafted instead we got Adrian Peterson(hard to complain about that) but from what I seen from Quinn in college he has the X factor that very few QBs have. Matt Ryan is another one that seems to have it.

Yeah, I don't think Quinn has played enough to say one way or the other what kind of draft pick he was. Only played a few games last season. He did lead a nice drive down the field to get a game winning field goal against Buffalo. He broke his finger in that game and he only played the first half of the next game. 10 quarters doesn't prove the pick was genius, nor does it prove it was awful...

[phightin]

Let me reiterate that I don't think Quinn will ever pan out largely because he doesn't pocess the prototypical big frame and arm that mostly all nfl teams go for now. It used to be up until a few years ago that college qbs were largely and dare i say solely measured by their achievements and numbers put up in college. This led to some horrendous qb draft decisions, and now with the success of more early qb picks in recent years it seems that the emphasis is finally in the right place, arm strength and most importantly ability to read pass coverage. Guys like Quinn, Leinart, Russell, etc all were surrounded by such great athletes their whole college career that they were thus able to have a tremendous amount of time in the pocket, and almost unlimited options in front of them. Far from the way it works in the NFL. Anyway that's my personal belief that has thus proven true for the most part. Quinn may become a serviceable nfl qb, but I think he in no way shape or form warranted a first round pick, as most other teams did. He probably wouldn't even have been taken in the first round and been a mid 2nd rounder had they not stepped up.

[Bobbuttons]

Originally Posted by phightin

Let me reiterate that I don't think Quinn will ever pan out largely because he doesn't pocess the prototypical big frame and arm that mostly all nfl teams go for now. It used to be up until a few years ago that college qbs were largely and dare i say solely measured by their achievements and numbers put up in college. This led to some horrendous qb draft decisions, and now with the success of more early qb picks in recent years it seems that the emphasis is finally in the right place, arm strength and most importantly ability to read pass coverage. Guys like Quinn, Leinart, Russell, etc all were surrounded by such great athletes their whole college career that they were thus able to have a tremendous amount of time in the pocket, and almost unlimited options in front of them. Far from the way it works in the NFL. Anyway that's my personal belief that has thus proven true for the most part. Quinn may become a serviceable nfl qb, but I think he in no way shape or form warranted a first round pick, as most other teams did. He probably wouldn't even have been taken in the first round and been a mid 2nd rounder had they not stepped up.

Once again, I ask... HOW has your opinion on what kind of qb Quinn will be in the NFL been proven true? As I said, he's played two full NFL games. In two NFL games, you can't make a definitive decision on anybody. I'm not saying one way or the other how he will be throughout his career, but I do know that I nobody has seen enough of him against NFL defenses to say.

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by phightin

Let me reiterate that I don't think Quinn will ever pan out largely because he doesn't pocess the prototypical big frame and arm that mostly all nfl teams go for now. It used to be up until a few years ago that college qbs were largely and dare i say solely measured by their achievements and numbers put up in college. This led to some horrendous qb draft decisions, and now with the success of more early qb picks in recent years it seems that the emphasis is finally in the right place, arm strength and most importantly ability to read pass coverage. Guys like Quinn, Leinart, Russell, etc all were surrounded by such great athletes their whole college career that they were thus able to have a tremendous amount of time in the pocket, and almost unlimited options in front of them. Far from the way it works in the NFL. Anyway that's my personal belief that has thus proven true for the most part. Quinn may become a serviceable nfl qb, but I think he in no way shape or form warranted a first round pick, as most other teams did. He probably wouldn't even have been taken in the first round and been a mid 2nd rounder had they not stepped up.

This is same reason guys like Tom Brady, Drew Brees, Kurt Warner (and the list goes on) get overlooked while busts like Ryan Leaf, Akili Smith, Cade McNown, and David Carr happen on a regular basis. The NFL is putting too much emphasis in things like Arm Strength and forgetting what seperates the great QBs. Teams would rather take a chance on someone with a huge arm and great height over a guy that has proved he is capable of reading a defense, more importantly anticipate a defense and still make all the throws even if they arent as pretty. All I can really say about Quinn is he can make every pass he needs to and is much better at anticipating the defense than most qbs his age. You cant compare the talent Russell and Leinart had around them to what Quinn had. Its pretty easy to see how important Quinn was when u look at ND's record with him and now their record the past 2 years without him.

[marc]

Arm strength is one of the most overrated things that gets looked at.

It's why when the Lions draft Stafford this year, they will continue to suck for another decade.

In fact, I'm really not sure why teams continue to take QB's in the top 5 of the draft as frequently as they do. Yes, it's the most important position on the field but the risk factor is just insane, especially with the NFL's horrible salary structure.

Go take a look at teams that have taken a QB in the top 5 of the draft and missed, it's absolutely devastating and in just about every single case has set the franchise back 5 or more years.

For every Peyton Manning and Donovan McNabb, there are five Akili Smith's.


There's really no perfect way to evaluate QB's, if there was, the success rate wouldn't be as ridiculously low as it is right now for highly drafted quarterbacks.


My opinion is that you build a team first and THEN insert a QB, preferably through free agency, trade, or a draft choice outside of the top 5-10. Too many teams want to do it the other way around and end up really hurting the franchise over the long term.