The World of Football/Soccer.

[bababui]

Originally Posted by zoraster

Bit hard to miss a player who spent virtually every significant match getting splinters in his backside. Basically they’ve swapped Ronaldo for Valencia, and that makes them a better balanced side. Valencia isn’t much of an offensive downgrade, but is light years ahead defensively. That will allow the likes of Anderson to play his natural role. United won’t be anything like as predictable next season. Ronaldo was a real anchor this past season. Next year they can actually get full value from the creativity of the likes Carrick, Anderson and Berbatov rather than have Ronaldo getting into everything and running down blind avenues. There is a reason United have struggled to create chances in open play.


As for missing Ronaldo’s free kicks I can only assume that comment comes from people who only recall highlights. Sure he hits a beauty when he gets it right, but his conversion ratio was nothing special. In fact I’m adamant United would have got more goals from free kicks if Ronaldo was sent into the box and they crossed it in for Ronaldo and Vidic. That is where United will massively miss Ronaldo’s presence. He was great in the air, and he was a great outlet ball. Everything else was eye candy, oft counter-productive eye candy at that. The rare occasions when United flowed last year saw Ronaldo playing a more direct game, and that is exactly what Valencia will try to provide each week.

A misinterpretation of the situation, IMO. Valencia isnt close to Ronaldo in any meaningful way and the best footie IQ's prove it by who is being sold for the 80 mil. This type of miscalculation happens in all sports with unpopular but massively talented figures. They really cant be replaced. And you also forgot to mention the extra defensive attention that will no longer be directed CR's way.

[bababui]

You guys seem to forget that CR is one of the few players in the world with the ability to individually dominate a match. As he matures he will be even more dominating...save he isnt crippled by injury. He is a totally unique and irreplaceable player. Ferguson is awash in his own hubris. He will rue the day he let the manchild CR go.

[zoraster]

Originally Posted by bababui

You guys seem to forget that CR is one of the few players in the world with the ability to individually dominate a match.

When? That is utter BS Bab. Count the big matches where Ronaldo even put in a passable performance. He was the ultimate in flat track bullies, running rings around beaten opponents, but going missing when his team needed a performance. When did Ronaldo carry his team? He wasn’t even the best at United in this respect, let alone being amongst the top few on the planet.

Originally Posted by bababui

And you also forgot to mention the extra defensive attention that will no longer be directed CR's way.

Thing is Bab that is actually a bonus for United. Ronaldo getting all that attention would only have been a bonus if he wasn’t a self-centred prat who insisted on getting involved in everything, thus bringing all that extra attention onto the ball carrier. United struggled massively last season because teams just jammed the middle, and they barely made a chance from open play most matches, hence it saw their lowest goals return since the dark days of Ruud.

You – and most fans – get totally blinded by eye catching individual returns and ignore the impact on the team. When Ruud got sold everyone was saying United would struggle to replace his goals... the fact is the goals tally went up because he was an anchor. Ronaldo is exactly the same.

Little statette for you; since the league was reduced to twenty teams in 1995 United have failed to pass the 70 goal barrier on three occasions, all since Ronaldo arrived. Ronaldo’s six years saw the team average 70.8 a season, way down on the pre-Ronaldo years. You’ve got to go back to Darren Ferguson pulling the midfield strings for half a season to find a pre-Ronaldo campaign as goal shy as last season.

Bottom line Bab, Ronaldo led United was a failure as an attacking force. No matter how highly you want to rate the individual it wasn’t working for the team.

[ukhotstove]

Let's just wait to see how he does at Madrid and how United do without him before we start calling him "irreplaceable", after all did Ronaldo play in the Champions League Final ? Did United win the final ?

Also a question I'd like to ask is how much of Valencia have people seen ? the guy is imo a more all round player than Ronaldo (he actually tracks back and defends shock of horrors), Also I'd like to ask what would other people have done in Fergie's shoe's, you obviousley had a player who didn't want to play for you and wanted to go to Madrid if it be for money or fame and you also had Rooney wanting to play more in the middle than on the wing, people say Fergie was wrong but what would you have done ?

Madrid have proved in the past you can have as many of the world greats playing for you but doesn't mean you will have a team to dominate other's, football is a team sport and very few teams ever win things with just one player, only time that it springs to mind is the 86 Argentina team.

[bababui]

UKHS..Ronaldo delivers the scoring clout from essentially a midfield position. He is irreplaceable. He is this generations Zidane.

[ukhotstove]

Originally Posted by bababui

UKHS..Ronaldo delivers the scoring clout from essentially a midfield position. He is irreplaceable. He is this generations Zidane.

He's classed as a midfield player but he played heck of alot of games as a striker, you have to look close at a player. Look at the goals Gerhard at Liverpool scores and he's classed as a midfield player but spends most of his time playing off Torres.

[bababui]

Im confused as to why you think Madrid would pay 80 million pounds for a rubbish player?

But, given the short attention span of footie teams and their inability to allow time for players to adjust to one another and the system, CR might not be the dogs bollocks next season. But, barring injury, in his late 20's, matured, he will be simply amazing. I would have forced the little ***** to play out his contract.

[ukhotstove]

Originally Posted by bababui

Im confused as to why you think Madrid would pay 80 million pounds for a rubbish player?

But, given the short attention span of footie teams and their inability to allow time for players to adjust to one another and the system, CR might not be the dogs bollocks next season. But, barring injury, in his late 20's, matured, he will be simply amazing. I would have forced the little ***** to play out his contract.

Then lost £80 million, remind me to never let you do my bills , also this £80 million price tag isn't just about his talent it's also about the money he can bring into the club via shirt sales etc aka Beckham, throw in the fact nobody called him rubbish just the fact Man United wont become relegation candidates because he's left, I'll put a wager on that man Utd will win just as much if not more than Madrid next season.

[ukhotstove]

People should always look at the goals breakdown of players, example being Crouch for England. You look at his goals per game ratio it's great but look who he has scored against then it doesn't look so good, here's Ronaldos goal breakdown from last season. He scored 25 goals last season which on the top seems a very good season until you break it down then it seems kind of poor.

3-1 V Middlesbrough 1 goal (only goal).
2-1 v Bolton 1 goal (pen) (1st goal).
4-0 v West Brom 1 goal (2nd goal).
2-0 v West Ham 2 goals (both goals).
4-3 v Hull City 2 goals (1st and 4th goal).
5-0 v Stoke City 2 goals (1st and 5th goal).
4-2 v Derby County 1 goal (pen) (4th goal).
5-0 v West Brom 2 goals. (4th and 5th goals).
1-0 v Everton 1 goal (pen) (only goal).
4-1 v Derby County 1 goal (3rd goal).
2-1 v Blackburn Rovers 1 goal (2nd goal).
2-0 v Inter Milan 1 goal (2nd goal).
1-4 v Liverpool 1 goal (pen) (only goal).
3-1 v Aston Villa 2 goals (1st and 2nd goals).
1-0 v Porto 1 goal (only goal).
5-2 v Tottenham Hotspur 2 goals (1 pen) (1st and 3rd goals).
3-1 v Arsenal 2 goals (2nd and 3rd goals).
2-0 v Man City 1 goal (1st goal).

Of the 25 goals he scored 4 goals came against teams that were relegated (Middlesbrough and West Brom), 2 goals against teams that were in the Championship (Derby County), 4 penalties, 6 more of his goals came against teams in the bottom half of the league so nearly half of his goals came against teams out of the top half of the league.

[zoraster]

Originally Posted by bababui

Im confused as to why you think Madrid would pay 80 million pounds for a rubbish player?

He is not rubbish by any means, just not half as good as people have been suggesting in recent years. As to why they would spend the money on him, you could just as easily ask the question about umpteen signings made by Real Madrid. A combination of grass is always greener syndrome combined with a healthy dose of PR interests. Fans love big name signings rather than good signings. A Ronaldo can win you the presidency, a Vidic certainly wouldn’t, but I’m sure everyone would agree which of those players would provide the bigger improvement to the squad.

Perez’s first stint at the helm ended with the club heading for their longest stretch without a trophy for half a decade. The Galacticos policy was a proven failure on the park. Consequently being a member of Galacticos 2 is hardly an endorsement of quality for Ronaldo. Last time round it was as much about marketing as on-field ability, and one thing no one will take issue with is Ronaldo’s immense marketability.


Making Ronaldo play out his contract would be stupid. He would have been able to buy it out next summer anyway, and you'd lose him for £18million after another mediocre season. Given it wasn't working on the park this past year it makes sense to get the cash while it is available. If United were playing well then there'd be a case, but they limped through the season and won the league by virtue of being the least bad. They need to improve.

[bababui]

Its not much of a bet that Man U wont fall much. The combination of the economic crisis and the new UK taxes have assured that none of the teams in England have really improved. We will likely see the effects in the Champions League. But Man U are nowhere near the potent dangerous side they have been the last two seasons.

[Tommysixfingers]

Nobody is irreplacable but some players are very near. People can discuss wether they like C.R until worlds end and that would be fine by me. My own personal opinion is that he is a bit on the "whiny side" of things.

Having said that, the discussion about his qualities as a players makes me want to ask the non believers if they ever saw an actual game of football. My opinion is that there is no question that C.R is one of the 3 best players in the world and has been so for a while. He might even be the best one of them all.

[zoraster]

Originally Posted by bababui

But Man U are nowhere near the potent dangerous side they have been the last two seasons.

??? It is surreal that you keep trying to suggest United have been potent recently. I repeat they've just had one of their worst seasons in front of goal for ages.

[Tommysixfingers]

Originally Posted by zoraster

??? It is surreal that you keep trying to suggest United have been potent recently. I repeat they've just had one of their worst seasons in front of goal for ages.

Explain to me what teams (besides Barca) that you considerded more potent last season? They won the EPL, which is the absolute best league in the world right now, and came 2nd in the CL. I hate Man U but your arguements that they are/were not a potent team are just ridiculous.

[ukhotstove]

But at the moment there are only the Spanish teams paying way over the odds transfer wise, most leagues apart from Spain can't keep up with the English teams despite the tax laws. Watch the Spanish teams self implode when they realise they can't field a 2-2-6 formation and they need to rotate players sure that will go down well with their multi million pound players.

[ukhotstove]

Seeing Tommy is online, who would you have. A prime Henrik Larrson or a prime Ronaldo ? I'd have a Larrson everytime simple reason he may not score in every game but I can bet you'll get 100% out of him every game, give me a player who will give me 100% everytime and I'll always choose him above the ones who turn up just one game in three.

[bababui]

Originally Posted by ukhotstove

Seeing Tommy is online, who would you have. A prime Henrik Larrson or a prime Ronaldo ? I'd have a Larrson everytime simple reason he may not score in every game but I can bet you'll get 100% out of him every game, give me a player who will give me 100% everytime and I'll always choose him above the ones who turn up just one game in three.

Larsson is a great player but Ronaldo is a player of a generation. He can do everything on the offensive side of the pitch very well. There isnt an English player even close to his class. And to lose him as he enters his prime is a double blow.

[zoraster]

Originally Posted by Tommysixfingers

Explain to me what teams (besides Barca) that you considerded more potent last season? The won the EPL, which is the absolute best league in the world right now, and came 2nd in the CL. I hate Man U but your arguements that they are/were not a potent team are just ridiculous.

The goals tally suggests otherwise If you actually watch United the number of chances created in open play have been staggeringly low recently. They won a very poor league last year mainly thanks to Vidic et al keeping it tight at the back. In fact going forward last year was probably the worst I’ve seen United – bar the late Ruud era – since Sexton was giving us all nightmares.

I’ll repeat it once more; United totalled just 68 goals last season. For United that is an appalling record, although they’ve twice done worse in the Ronaldo era. You’ve got to go back to 93 for the previous time they failed to break the 70 barrier.

[Tommysixfingers]

Originally Posted by ukhotstove

Seeing Tommy is online, who would you have. A prime Henrik Larrson or a prime Ronaldo ? I'd have a Larrson everytime simple reason he may not score in every game but I can bet you'll get 100% out of him every game, give me a player who will give me 100% everytime and I'll always choose him above the ones who turn up just one game in three.

I'm sorry mate but as much respect I have for Larsson, and I have lots, and lot's of respect, for being an absolute role model for a young footballer I must say C.R.

As good as Larsson was a couple of years ago, C.R is one of the absolute best players that I've seen and I firmly believe that he can win games on his own.

Larsson is/was a very good player with unsurpassed work ethics and a professional way of carrying himself. I have so much more respect for Larsson than C.R but in terms of pure quality as a player there is no comparison in my mind.

[bababui]

Originally Posted by zoraster

The goals tally suggests otherwise If you actually watch United the number of chances created in open play have been staggeringly low recently. They won a very poor league last year mainly thanks to Vidic et al keeping it tight at the back. In fact going forward last year was probably the worst I’ve seen United – bar the late Ruud era – since Sexton was giving us all nightmares.

I’ll repeat it once more; United totalled just 68 goals last season. For United that is an appalling record, although they’ve twice done worse in the Ronaldo era. You’ve got to go back to 93 for the previous time they failed to break the 70 barrier.

LOL

And losing by far their most dangerous offensive player wont hurt them even more.