2009 Cleveland Browns

[Bobbuttons]

Somehow, this team is hanging in this game. I don't know how, as they've been outgained by around a million yards. Look at it this way. Cribbs throws a pick on 2nd down from the 14 yard line. Pittsburgh takes that next drive all the way for a touchdown. Browns hold Pittsburgh on 4th and short. Officials very suspiciously give them a first down. The Browns first drop an easy INT in the endzone, then give up a FG. That's a 13 point swing. Browns should be kicking themselves because they should be leading this game.

While, as a fan, I want the Browns to somehow pull this out, they really need to just lose by two touchdowns or less, as I took them as a 14 1/2 point underdawg.

[Bobbuttons]

I am now 6-0 in my Browns games picks against the spread.

[Bobbuttons]

Originally Posted by PittPanther

I guess Braylon Edwards just needed a change of scenery . . .


hahahahahahahahaha

Guess he did. 3 catches out of 9 that were intended for him, one of which he should have had but deflected off of his hands and into a defender's for an INT. That's what we saw a lot in Cleveland. Good call on his performance last week....

[MorseMoose]

My name is Cleveland Brown, and I'm back in my hometown...

[PittPanther]

Originally Posted by Bobbuttons

Guess he did. 3 catches out of 9 that were intended for him, one of which he should have had but deflected off of his hands and into a defender's for an INT. That's what we saw a lot in Cleveland. Good call on his performance last week....

Make sure you keep this in your ammo case - cause after watching your team yesterday, your gonna need something. They are that bad.

[Bobbuttons]

Originally Posted by PittPanther

Make sure you keep this in your ammo case - cause after watching your team yesterday, your gonna need something. They are that bad.

Thank you for letting us know, in an entire thread devoted to how bad the Cleveland Browns are, that the Browns are that bad. Nothing gets past you.

[Bobbuttons]

This is ridiculous. What kind of a moron has a shorter rope for a young QB that is still developing that a veteran QB who should be more consistent? Quinn got pulled after not being able to consistently move the ball against 3 of the better defenses in the league. Sure, he didn't look great. But he wasn't that bad. That being said, I wasn't shocked to see him get pulled just to see if Anderson could spark the offense. He didn't. Instead, he's put up these numbers in 4 1/2 games:

COMP 60
ATT 137
COMP % 44
YARDS 605
TD 2
INT 7
FUMBLES 4
LOST 2
QB RATING 40.6


This is the only coach in the league that's too damn stubborn to admit that he was premature in pulling Quinn and that he should get another shot. Unless it's the contract that's keeping him from playing Quinn. If that's the case, he should be fired right now. If playing Quinn the rest of the year helps him to improve to where he is at least a little better than either of our QBs this year, to hell with the contract. I want this team to improve.

[Bobbuttons]

Is there any quarterback in the league that the Browns aren't going to give up a 25+ yard rush to this season? This is getting to be an every game occurance...

[jazzrack]

i feel bad for browns fans

Cleveland Browns GM George Kokinis out; head coach Eric Mangini stays - ESPN

if it wasn't for the raiders, lions, rams, redskins & bills you guys would have the most pathetic orginization in the league

[Bobbuttons]

Originally Posted by jazzrack

i feel bad for browns fans

Cleveland Browns GM George Kokinis out; head coach Eric Mangini stays - ESPN

if it wasn't for the raiders, lions, rams, redskins & bills you guys would have the most pathetic orginization in the league

Kokinos didn't really do much anyway, and from a report in the Plain Dealer, he and Mangenius had a bit of a falling out in training camp. Mangenius has been the one making all the football decisions, anyway. I truly hope that Randy Lerner is sincere. The other day after the game he stated that he was sick about the state of the team and that he was going to bring in a credible, football minded person to head the team. Not sure who that person could be. He brought in Bernie Kosar as a special consultant a few weeks ago. That was a good PR move, as Bernie is still a God in Cleveland. He's in no way ready to make personnel decisions, though.

I feel the way I feel about the Indians. I think the Indians needed to find a manager with a proven track record of winning (instead, they went with Eric Wedge several years ago, now they get Manny Acta with his awesome winning percentage). I'd like to see Lerner bring in a proven guy to take over the general manager position and let Mangini know that the only way he keeps his job is by surrendering some control over player and personnel issues.

[silvam14]

PU! This thread stinks!

[Bobbuttons]

Holy cow. Still not sure what to make of yesterday's game. On the plus side, it got more of an emotional response out of me than ANY game this season. I'm at a loss to describe how unbelievably bad this defense is. On Monday night, they held a team averaging 24 points a game to just 10 points (that the defense actually gave up), gave up just 155 yards passing to a team averaging 240 yards a game. Yesterday, they faced a guy with a QB rating of 59.5 and a team that averaged less than 16 points a game and 190 passing yards a game and the Browns give up 38 points and 422 passing yards. Hell, Stafford had 6 TDs coming into the game and threw 5 yesterday. There is no excuse for this. This team is just completely impossible to read from week to week, save for one consistent thing: they will find a way to lose.

[phenom]

and I'm okay with that. At least yesterday.

[Bobbuttons]

So Mike Holmgren has turned down an offer from the Seahawks and it looks increasingly likely that he will take a position with the Browns. From what I read in the Plain Dealer, the clincher may be the possibility of coaching, as well. I'd love to see Holmgren running the team, or coaching it. I do NOT want to see him doing both. How often are those that coach and GM a team at the same time? I don't see it working out very often. Hell, even with Holmgren. Seattle gave him the entire organization when they lured him from Green Bay. I certainly don't think it's a coincidence, though, that Seattle didn't make the Super Bowl until a few years AFTER Holmgren was removed as GM.

[Bobbuttons]

I don't see how, at this point, Holmgren could fire Mangini. First, Holmgren has said in the past that it's unfair to fire a coach after just one season. Second, while this team was beyond lethargic the first 2 months of the season, they've played much better and much more like a team the last 6 weeks. They've been in every game. They've cut down on stupid turnovers. They've established a running game the last month. They don't commit many penalties. They've actually become more disciplined than I expected this season.

Players that had been in the doghouse at times throughout the season are finally starting to get it. Jerome Harrison couldn't even get on the dressed list for quite a few games then suddenly he's shattering team rushing records. Eric Wright has one of his best games. Brandon McDonald, benched to start the game, comes back late and gets a huge interception. Mike Adams, who has looked horrible at times this season and gave up a big pass play last week, had a sack and a crucial pass deflection during the Browns goal line stand in the 4th.

This team is not a good team. Not even close. But it has gotten better. It's gotten better even when it by all rights shouldn't have, even when a number of their top players from previous years have been traded or placed on IR. The castoffs from other teams that have been signed as last resorts for an injury riddled Browns team have performed far better than anyone could have imagined. Mike Furrey has made key plays as a receiver and as a defensive back. Michael Gaines made a big catch yesterday. Matt Roth has been a beast on defense. It's amazing to me that this team has been able to compete like they have without leading rusher from last year, their top 3 receivers from last year, their leader on the defensive line, their leader in tackles, etc. This team could have just given up and gone through the motions. Hell, the Colts were undefeated and did just that. But the Browns have not.

Mangini naysayers can criticize him all they want, but coaching has to be at least partly responsible for this team starting to actually look like an NFL team again. I'm not the biggest Mangini fan, I thought it was asanine of him to drag out the Anderson/Quinn issue as long as he did this season. But this team is night and day what it was a couple of months ago. That's got to account for something.

[TribeFanInNC]

I agree. They at least look like a competitive team most of the time now. Though I still remain baffled at how DA was the QB as long as he was.

[damientheomen3]

I know that it's really late, but Derek Anderson's first half QB rating was the 6th worst QB rating in the first half of a season in NFL history, despite QB ratings being much higher these days then they were, say, 35 years ago. His was also the second worst PR since 1980.

[Bobbuttons]

Originally Posted by damientheomen3

I know that it's really late, but Derek Anderson's first half QB rating was the 6th worst QB rating in the first half of a season in NFL history, despite QB ratings being much higher these days then they were, say, 35 years ago. His was also the second worst PR since 1980.

Yet, this was the guy Mangini felt was better to run the offense. I will say that I haven't been overly impressed by Quinn. His mid and long range accuracy hasn't been very good. BUT, he does run this offense better than Anderson. It seems he's become better at reading the defenses (which he was not very good at last year) and he has done a really good job of blitz pickups and calling out hot reads. Sadly, many of these have gone as incomplete passes because the young receivers haven't fully grasped the idea behind identifying the blitz and being ready right away for the ball....

If Mangini is out, and Holmgren installs somebody to run a west coast style offense, I think Quinn will do pretty well. His short passing is pretty accurate. I also think that Harrison would benefit from that kind of offense. I see him as a good west coast style back, running 15 times a game and catching 6 or 7 times out of the back field.

[PittPanther]

Originally Posted by Bobbuttons

Guess he did. 3 catches out of 9 that were intended for him, one of which he should have had but deflected off of his hands and into a defender's for an INT. That's what we saw a lot in Cleveland. Good call on his performance last week....

bb - just reminding you of what a joke you are! Edwards turned out to be ok, right?

STAIRWAY TO SEVEN! Root fo the packers, white knuckle it! You know what's in store! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHA

[Bobbuttons]

Originally Posted by PittPanther

bb - just reminding you of what a joke you are! Edwards turned out to be ok, right?

STAIRWAY TO SEVEN! Root fo the packers, white knuckle it! You know what's in store! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHA

What a joke I am? That's rather rude. What are you, 6 years old?

Edwards had 53 catches this season for 7 TDs. In what was the biggest game of the season, he caught only 3 passes out of 7 thrown his way. If you want to debate whether Edwards "turned out to be ok," no problem. I never said Edwards wasn't "ok". But a number 3 overall pick being "ok" means that he is a disappointment. A number 3 overall pick isn't supposed to be "ok."

I will go a step further. Edwards can be good. I saw it in Cleveland. I never said he sucked. He is just wildly inconsistent, and he hasn't changed much in New York. He had 8 games this season with 4 or more catches. He had 10 games with less than 4. He broke 100 receiving yards in a game ONCE. If he could be consistent, he could be a very good receiver in this league. As it is, he's just a solid receiver. Nothing more.

And I actually had to root for the Steelers two weeks in a row. I will never root for the Ravens and I could not root for the Jets. All they do is talk. As much as I hate the Steelers, they do their talking on the field and I can respect that. Not that I think they will get past the Packers. Packers are a damn good team and Pittsburgh doesn't play a consistent 4 quarters of football.