[Hazza]

I actually believe that a salary cap and no draft helps teams more. If that makes sense.

Anyone can sign anyone, but they're forced to move on after a few years to somewhere else for more money. Spreads the talents around, and it puts a premium on building a good team and spending the right money at the right time.

[mlyons]

Originally Posted by Hazza

I actually believe that a salary cap and no draft helps teams more. If that makes sense.

Anyone can sign anyone, but they're forced to move on after a few years to somewhere else for more money. Spreads the talents around, and it puts a premium on building a good team and spending the right money at the right time.

Two things have to happen for that to work:

1) The salary cap has to account for all players in a team's organization, not just the 40-man roster.

2) The 6 years of indentured servitude each player owes a team at the beginning of his major league career needs to be done away with -- all players are free agents at the end of their contracts, whether they're 38 or 18.

[turdfurgeson]

I say get rid of the revenue sharing. If they want to penalize teams for going over a certain amount of payroll, put it into a fund to be used for other ventures.

I am sure they could think of something to do with the money other than reward owners who are using it as profit. It would also add incentive for owners to put out a better product, if they want to see profit, they have to earn it.

[Tom the Fish]

The Yankees have proven that all you need to do for a team that missed the playoffs for a year is go spend money on the top three free agents. Problem solved.

Of course, if any of them turn out a bust, well, you can always buy more next year. Why can't the other teams see this?

So glad I can follow NPB now. Go Fighters!

Tom

[marc]

Originally Posted by Tom the Fish

The Yankees have proven that all you need to do for a team that missed the playoffs for a year is go spend money on the top three free agents. Problem solved.

Of course, if any of them turn out a bust, well, you can always buy more next year. Why can't the other teams see this?

So glad I can follow NPB now. Go Fighters!

Tom

So what about the Mets then? Or the Orioles for most of the last 15 years? Or the Cubs?

[Tom the Fish]

Originally Posted by marc

So what about the Mets then? Or the Orioles for most of the last 15 years? Or the Cubs?

I don't care. For the first time in my life I didn't follow MLB at all, and it was no big deal. My team has always been the Red Sox since Tiant and Burleson were my favorites and I was disgusted at watching them buy their way into championships, too. MLB is dead to me. Other-teams-do-it-too arguments only solidify my positions.

Tom

[William Foster]

Originally Posted by Tom the Fish

I don't care. For the first time in my life I didn't follow MLB at all, and it was no big deal. My team has always been the Red Sox since Tiant and Burleson were my favorites and I was disgusted at watching them buy their way into championships, too. MLB is dead to me. Other-teams-do-it-too arguments only solidify my positions.

Tom

Sometimes I wish it was possible to get the NPB on TV over here.. My short expierience attending one of the games over there was to put it lightly.. an incredible expierience that every Baseball fan should expierience.

[marc]

Originally Posted by Tom the Fish

I don't care. For the first time in my life I didn't follow MLB at all, and it was no big deal. My team has always been the Red Sox since Tiant and Burleson were my favorites and I was disgusted at watching them buy their way into championships, too. MLB is dead to me. Other-teams-do-it-too arguments only solidify my positions.

Tom

The point was that those teams do it and fall flat on their collective faces every year so it's not nearly as simple as spending a bunch of money.

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by marc

The point was that those teams do it and fall flat on their collective faces every year so it's not nearly as simple as spending a bunch of money.

Yankees have also gotten smarter. Previously they overspent on past their prime players. This year they went out and got 2 players in their prime.(CC+Tex) Lets not penalize the Yankees for being able to generate more revenue than other teams lets just make sure the bottom feeders are trying their best to field a winner. Slotting in the amatuer draft and a international draft.

Being able to bring in the top amatuer players without the excuse of having to pay an unproven player so much money would give the sorry asses no excuse for being uncompetitive for 15 straight years.

[Le Grande Orange]

Originally Posted by jbergey22

Being able to bring in the top amatuer players without the excuse of having to pay an unproven player so much money...

Well, the biggest spender in terms of signing bonuses for amateur players in 2008 was Kansas City, which was 29th in the league in terms of revenue. So lower revenue clubs are quite capable of paying out lots of bonuses if they really want to.

Also, part of the reason for larger signing bonuses is because the salaries in the minors are tightly regulated and very low. The signing bonus is pretty much the only significant amount of cash the player will see for quite a few years.

[yankeesrule]

Originally Posted by Tom the Fish

The Yankees have proven that all you need to do for a team that missed the playoffs for a year is go spend money on the top three free agents. Problem solved.

Of course, if any of them turn out a bust, well, you can always buy more next year. Why can't the other teams see this?

So glad I can follow NPB now. Go Fighters!

Tom

You do realize that the Yanks payroll went down from 2008, right? They didn't simply go out and buy new players, they had guys whose contracts expired who were then replaced by other players, or guys that were resigned but at a lower salary.

Teixera($20M) replaced Giambi($23M)
AJ($16M) replaced Abreu($16M)
CC($15M) replaced Moose($11M) + Farnsworth($6M)

we also subtracted guys like Pavano($11M) and Hawkins($4M) and resigned Pettite for $10M less than his '08 salary while adding guys like Swish($5M) and increasing salaries of guys like Cano and Wang.

Would it have made you happier if rather than the yanks cutting their payroll by $8M they cut it by 20 and rather than getting AJ and CC brought in second tier starters like Oliver Perez, Derek Lowe, Jon Garland, or Ryan Dempster to replace the departure of Moose, uncertainty regarding Pettite(didn't resign until late into the offseason) and Wang(turned out that he hadn't fully recovered from the ankle injury)

Bottom line is, the yankees had significant salary coming off the books, had some large wholes open from those departures, and filled them with guys that at least so far look to have been solid signings.

[rudel.dietrich]

I don't even count Burnett in the Yankees spending since he was more of a detriment to the team than a help.

[SWardle]

Originally Posted by Tom the Fish

The Yankees have proven that all you need to do for a team that missed the playoffs for a year is go spend money on the top three free agents. Problem solved.

Of course, if any of them turn out a bust, well, you can always buy more next year. Why can't the other teams see this?

So glad I can follow NPB now. Go Fighters!

Tom

Well, it's great that the NPB has such even payrolls!

2009 NPB Team Payroll Ranking NPB Tracker

Take a wild guess which team from that list has a trophy case that reads the following (I count 34 championships, the Yanks have some catching up to do!):

League championships 1951, 1952, 1953, 1955, 1956, 1957, 1958, 1959, 1961, 1963, 1965, 1966, 1967, 1968, 1969, 1970, 1971, 1972, 1973, 1976, 1977, 1981, 1983, 1987, 1989, 1990, 1994, 1996, 2000, 2002, 2007, 2008, 2009

[Skipaway]

Yeah, NPB is very very unbalanced with the Giants dominating everybody. Giants boss Tsuneo Watanabe is a way worse character than anything you can ever say about Steinbrenner. He systematically influence the league, using the leverage that half of Japan is consist of Giants fans, to the benefit of his team. He butted heads with the union all the time, and forced contractions. He was also caught bribing amateur players. The reason NPB has free agency was actually due to an extended period of time of the Giants not winning the championships, and Watanabe wants to find new ways to buy players. Before that, he only got to buy prospects.

[Nihilianth]

Originally Posted by yankeesrule

You do realize that the Yanks payroll went down from 2008, right? They didn't simply go out and buy new players, they had guys whose contracts expired who were then replaced by other players, or guys that were resigned but at a lower salary.

Teixera($20M) replaced Giambi($23M)
AJ($16M) replaced Abreu($16M)
CC($15M) replaced Moose($11M) + Farnsworth($6M)

we also subtracted guys like Pavano($11M) and Hawkins($4M) and resigned Pettite for $10M less than his '08 salary while adding guys like Swish($5M) and increasing salaries of guys like Cano and Wang.

Would it have made you happier if rather than the yanks cutting their payroll by $8M they cut it by 20 and rather than getting AJ and CC brought in second tier starters like Oliver Perez, Derek Lowe, Jon Garland, or Ryan Dempster to replace the departure of Moose, uncertainty regarding Pettite(didn't resign until late into the offseason) and Wang(turned out that he hadn't fully recovered from the ankle injury)

Bottom line is, the yankees had significant salary coming off the books, had some large wholes open from those departures, and filled them with guys that at least so far look to have been solid signings.

heh, Moose is my cousin. He;s happy to be outta baseball finally. **** wears on a guy. Plus, the greed of the owners is too incredible. The higher the payrolls have to be in baseball, the better. Money should be circulating to the players and coaches, who do all the work. Give baseball a salary cap, and your only making the owners richer. How's that good for baseball? Not very, when the rich just get richer.

[CBL-Commish]

Originally Posted by marc

So what about the Mets then? Or the Orioles for most of the last 15 years? Or the Cubs?

Really, this isn't hard.

Unfathomable resources + stupid management = average team.

Unfathomable resources + average management = very good team.

Unfathomable resources + excellent management = darn near unbeatable team.

Baltimore resources + stupid management = 60 wins.

Baltimore resources + average management = 70 or 75 wins.

Baltimore resources + excellent management = who knows, hasn't happened this century. But probably 85-90 win team.

This is a track and field race. Money doesn't guarantee you win, it just lets you get a damn big head start. Since the 1920s the Yanks have begun the 100m dash at the 40m point.

[CBL-Commish]

Originally Posted by SWardle

Well, it's great that the NPB has such even payrolls!

Looks a lot like MLB circa 1995. You know, back when teams like the Blue Jays or Orioles would occasionally win the AL East? NPB would be similar to the majors if Hanshin still had that $40M payroll at #2, but the Giants sat at $70M.

[Skipaway]

Originally Posted by CBL-Commish

Looks a lot like MLB circa 1995. You know, back when teams like the Blue Jays or Orioles would occasionally win the AL East? NPB would be similar to the majors if Hanshin still had that $40M payroll at #2, but the Giants sat at $70M.

It's not similar anyway. In NPB it takes 9 years instead of 6 years to get to free agency. Their arbitration is done by the commissioner's office instead of independent arbitrator.

The power of the Giants is not fully reflected in the payroll numbers.

[Jason Moyer]

Originally Posted by Le Grande Orange

Please explain 1947-64 where the Yankees made the World Series 15 times out of 18 seasons, all without free agency and outbidding other clubs for the services of top players.

They still bought the best players, it just happened differently.

There has never been a point in baseball's history where being successful and spending a pile of money weren't related. Sometimes that meant spending the most on scouting and buying the best talent, sometimes it meant buying minor league teams, sometimes it meant buying players from other teams, whatever. Connie Mack would probably laugh at the whole notion that buying success is something new in baseball.