MLB Salary Cap (Or..just...something!) Redux of the Redux

[Le Grande Orange]

Originally Posted by jbergey22

Slotting is good for a number of reasons. It gives the teams leverage against the players as well. It makes sure that guys like Porcello dont fall in the draft when they should go on teams that need him much worse than the Tigers did.

Maybe so. Only problem is the MLBPA will never agree to it.

Originally Posted by Jason Moyer

Share 50% of the television revenue and tier the draft pick bonuses and everything will even out pretty quickly.

National television revenue was already shared equally. The current revenue sharing system calls for a base 31% of total local revenue (minus stadium expenses) to be shared, with additional sharing for lower income teams by altering the split of national central fund revenue.

Originally Posted by Goody

You say that like its nothing. Like its not a big deal. Wow. Just wow.

You keep harping on the Yankees. But I don't see you complaining about how the Atlanta Braves made the post-season 11 times in the last 15 years.

Originally Posted by Goody

Out of 14 teams going for 4 spots in the playoffs. 1 team took one of those spots 93% of the time.

Your math is off. There is only one guaranteed playoff slot for each division, and that's first place. The other slot is the wild card, and that naturally has many more teams competing for it since it's a league-wide playoff position.

I don't see you praising the fairly equitable distribution of playoff qualifers in the AL Central, AL West, NL Central, and NL West. Why is that? Why are you fixated on the AL East to the exclusion of the rest of MLB?

Originally Posted by Goody

The Red Sox went the past 9 out of 15 years...AND THEY'RE IN THE SAME DIVISION!

The Yankees and Red Sox are clearly top-notch organizations to have that kind of consistent success. Of course, divisionally weighted schedules where those two clubs can beat up on the Rays, Orioles, and Blue Jays some 54 times a year certainly helps pad their records, giving them an advantage for the wild card.

Dump interleague play, return to a balanced schedule, and scrap the divisions. Play like that for fifteen years and I suspect the Yankees and Red Sox playoff qualifying won't be quite as good as it has been the last fifteen years.

[Goody]

You don't think the Sox and Yanks would dump on the Central and West divisions just as much as they do in the East?

Atlanta is a big market, historic, storied team...with lots of fans from all over due to the national TV contract they had showing all their games in every region...and a favorite of bandwagon jumpers when they're good.

They're one of the top 6 or so teams in terms of imbalance.


I'm not saying only teams with a lot of money will be successful...and that every team in a smaller market is never going to be successful...

What I'm saying is that the rules are doing nothing to even the teams out even a little bit. The 3 or 4 teams with the most money who is currently winning will have the easiest path to get better and better. 3-5 years of bad management can sink a team for a decade or more if they don't have the market to save them.

Look, every team in the league has a big enough market to pay guys well beyond what they deserve. Its just that there's always a bigger fish out there to shell out more money.

After the Mariners lost 3 future Hall of Famers they used all that freed up money to get Ichiro only because they beat the Yankees to it. If they'd have thought of it first they'd have done it, because for them money is no object at all. Of course it wasn't long before the Yankees went and got their Japanese All Star.

Even a team like the Mariners (or the Braves), with a lot of buying power and a good market and fanbase...can't keep up. Because it has literally gotten out of control.

[Skipaway]

The current rules contribute a lot to even the teams out a lot. Teams control their players for six years, which often include the best years of a player. The limit on roster size ensures team cannot hoard too many players. The draft also helps.

Of course teams with more resources will have easier paths, and should have easier paths.

[Le Grande Orange]

Originally Posted by Goody

Even a team like the Mariners (or the Braves), with a lot of buying power and a good market and fanbase...can't keep up. Because it has literally gotten out of control.

You keep saying that but so far you have posted little actual evidence to support that claim. It seems you just hate the Yankees, which is fine, but at least be honest about it and don't try to cover it with unsubstantiated arguments.

Originally Posted by Skipaway

Of course teams with more resources will have easier paths, and should have easier paths.

And always have. This seems to have been overlooked by some.

[mlyons]

Originally Posted by Jason Moyer

The Yankees network isn't worth anything if they don't play anyone right? If I'm a team in a small market I wouldn't even waste time making the trip to New York if they're not going to cut me 50% of the money they're making from playing my team. A team like the Yanks could share 50% of their TV revenue with the rest of the league and still have twice the revenue of any other team.

That wouldn't hurt the Yankees in the slightest (Do you think their TV ratings would drop if they stopped playing small market teams? Exhibitions against Japanese teams would probably do as well as games against the Royals.), but it would probably bankrupt the little teams refusing to play the Yankees, even if MLB didn't revoke their franchise rights. Teams like Tampa and Oakland see their attendances double when the Yankees come to town.

Small market teams are already making plenty of money under the current system. Their owners (at least the ones who are more worried about making a profit than fielding a competitive team, which appears to be the majority of them nowadays) don't have any incentive to change the system.

[Skipaway]

Yeah, as I said, if local revenue is going to be shared, then why even bother playing that many games in Tampa Bay. For the financial benefits of both teams, 80% of the games between Yankees and Rays should be played in New York then.

Also most of the stadium improvements and marketing efforts should concentrate in New York then. For the Rays, giving money to New York for improvements in exchange of higher ticket price/revenue would be more beneficial than improving their own stadium.

[Le Grande Orange]

Just to further the competitive balance argument:

Over the last 15 years, the Yankees have made it to the World Series 7 times, including this year. Sounds like a lot. But how does it compare to other periods from MLB history?

Well, from 1921-28, the Yankees made it to the World Series 6 times over those 8 seasons. From 1936-43, the Yankees made it to the World Series 7 times over those 8 seasons. And, from 1947-64, the Yankees made it to the World Series an incredible 15 times over those 18 seasons.

And those were done during the reserve clause era, with no free agency causing large amounts of player movement between clubs. So, how are things worse now in terms of competitive balance than they were back then?

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by Le Grande Orange

And those were done during the reserve clause era, with no free agency causing large amounts of player movement between clubs. So, how are things worse now in terms of competitive balance than they were back then?

I think this is the big gripe of fans. The Yankees were winning with players they developed back then. Now they are raiding talent from other teams to win with some of their own mixed in. Its not so bad losing to the Yankees but it very much sucks when they take your most talented player.

Even bidding the market up even if they dont get the player hurts small teams. The Yankees are guilty of that as well. Im not saying its their fault but its the way it is. Yankees can afford 75 million in bad contracts while some small market teams dont have that as a payroll.

And yes this conversation probably gets old for Yankee fans. They are clearly the most dominant franchise in sports history so everyone wants to try to break their legs to bring them to an equal level. It cant and wont ever happen. Their history alone would make them the best team even if everything else was equal including finances.

Fans from other teams hate the Yankees however the teams owner loves when the Yankees come to town because he knows he will get a big gate.

[mlyons]

Originally Posted by jbergey22

I think this is the big gripe of fans. The Yankees were winning with players they developed back then. Now they are raiding talent from other teams to win with some of their own mixed in. Its not so bad losing to the Yankees but it very much sucks when they take your most talented player.

So you'd be fine with a competitive imbalance, as long as the players were restricted from moving around?

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by Skipaway

Yeah, as I said, if local revenue is going to be shared, then why even bother playing that many games in Tampa Bay. For the financial benefits of both teams, 80% of the games between Yankees and Rays should be played in New York then.

Also most of the stadium improvements and marketing efforts should concentrate in New York then. For the Rays, giving money to New York for improvements in exchange of higher ticket price/revenue would be more beneficial than improving their own stadium.

Ok Skip. I understand your point behind this but you know this cant happen. Do you really think any team play a schedule like this? I highly doubt something like this would bring in new fans. The Yankees would win 120 games every year while the other teams would win 30-50. It would be like the Harlem Globetrotters aginst the Washington Generals.

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by mlyons

So you'd be fine with a competitive imbalance, as long as the players were restricted from moving around?

I didnt actually say that. I was speaking for why fans hate the Yankees.

I am pretty much realistic about this situation. The players arent going to restrict themselves and the Yankees will always have more money than everyone else so nothing huge can ever really change.

[Skipaway]

Originally Posted by jbergey22

Ok Skip. I understand your point behind this but you know this cant happen. Do you really think any team play a schedule like this? I highly doubt something like this would bring in new fans. The Yankees would win 120 games every year while the other teams would win 30-50. It would be like the Harlem Globetrotters aginst the Washington Generals.

I think something like this will bring in more new fans. Obviously there are more people in New York, and more potential fans you can bring in. In Tampa, they are already having a hard time finding fans.

And actually this way the Yankees would not win as many games, since the topic was Yankees local revenue being shared with the Rays. Rays would then have much more income, just fewer home games.

[jbergey22]

Who do you think the top Free Agents would go to? The team playing 80 percent of their games at home or the team playing 80 percent of their games on the road?

Tampa Bay owner would probably love this. He gets to pick up all this extra revenue when really his only realistic job is to put out a team that can stay within 80 games of the Yankees. Sign me up as the TB owner.

[Skipaway]

Originally Posted by jbergey22

Who do you think the top Free Agents would go to? The team playing 80 percent of their games at home or the team playing 80 percent of their games on the road?

Tampa Bay owner would probably love this. He gets to pick up all this extra revenue when really his only realistic job is to put out a team that can stay within 80 games of the Yankees. Sign me up as the TB owner.

Free agents wouldn't care, because both teams would essentially both have New York as hometown, with games played in Tampa Bay once in awhile.

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by Skipaway

Free agents wouldn't care, because both teams would essentially both have New York as hometown, with games played in Tampa Bay once in awhile.

So basically your league consists of Tampa Bay and the Yankees? Or does Tampa Bay play say the Rangers at Yankee Stadium as well?

[Skipaway]

Originally Posted by jbergey22

So basically your league consists of Tampa Bay and the Yankees? Or does Tampa Bay play say the Rangers at Yankee Stadium as well?

Actually it would be beneficial for most of the games in the league to be played in bigger cities. I think they might as well just scrap the idea of home team. Just have teams tour around the country.

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by Skipaway

Actually it would be beneficial for most of the games in the league to be played in bigger cities. I think they might as well just scrap the idea of home team. Just have teams tour around the country.

As wierd as it sounds it probably would be a good thing to do. This way everyone gets a chance to see different players.

[mlyons]

Originally Posted by jbergey22

Tampa Bay owner would probably love this. He gets to pick up all this extra revenue when really his only realistic job is to put out a team that can stay within 80 games of the Yankees. Sign me up as the TB owner.

That's no different than now. Tampa Bay made nearly $30 million in profit last season.

[Jason Moyer]

Originally Posted by jbergey22

The Yankees were winning with players they developed back then.

Like Babe Ruth and Waite Hoyt? The Yankees have spent the most on players basically since the Edward Barrow era.

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by Jason Moyer

Like Babe Ruth and Waite Hoyt? The Yankees have spent the most on players basically since the Edward Barrow era.

I was thinking more like
Joe Dimaggio
Mickey Mantle
Whitey Ford
Lou Gehrig
Yogi Berra
Bill Dickey

FYI Ruth and Hoyt were acquired via trade...not really the same as signing free agents anyway even if cash played a big part of the trades. Teams had the option atleast to keep their own guy and not trade them.

And of course theyve spent the most money on their players as they have made the most money over the years. They did it in a much different way until the mid 70s hower
.