World Series 2009 Phillies vs Yankees

[pfreek11]

Originally Posted by PotatoPeeler

Was it just me, or could anyone else here the fans signing the Na Na Hey Hey Goodbye song in the top of the 6h?

Yeah, I actually said something out loud about it at the time. Seemed completely bizarre to me and I was wondering if I missed something.

[CommishJoe]

Originally Posted by phightin

Well I'll concede the series to the yankees cause it's aparent the phillies won't be able to take 3 of 4 from this team to come back. To be honest I wasn't that impressed by petite compared to cc and burnett mainly due to the fact that victorino, howard, utley, and ibanez just had some of the most awful abs i've ever seen out of them. But otherwise, Hamels is the one guy i'll throw under the bus from the team. The knock on him inside the club house was that he had a tremendous amount of talent but a narcisistic attitude and horrendous work ethic, seems pretty true. He never developed a third pitch and admitily didnt take care of himself in the offseason and it shows. Whenever I've had the chance to see him this season the biggest difference is his fastball tapers off from around 93 to the high 80s by the middle of the game and thats when he gets clobbered, its happened all season, his arm just isnt in shape. His whole attitude, falling asleep in the dugout during the game bothers me as well. I'm all for a guy being relaxed out there but that to me is a little over the top. Besides that though I'll take the world series last year, they deserved it, and the yankees deserve theirs this year.

If the Yanks win tomorrow, they'll be in great shape. If they don't, they won't be. With Cliff Lee vs AJ Burnett on short rest, I give the Phils a huge advantage in that game. Phils up 3-2 with Pettitte on short rest scares the heck out of me. If the Yanks win tomorrow, they could throw Gaudin in game 5, then AJ on long rest in game 6 if they felt like it. I still see tomorrow's game to be VERY important to both teams.

[phightin]

Originally Posted by pfreek11

Yeah, I actually said something out loud about it at the time. Seemed completely bizarre to me and I was wondering if I missed something.

People were wondering why ticket prices were higher in philly than in new york and figured it was because so many people in the area were clamoring for phillies tickets. But in reality it was because a large number of phillies were selling their tickets to yankee fans who were willing to pay an arm and leg and price out a large percentage of the stadium. There were a ton of them there tonight.

[mikev]

Not pitching Cliff Lee in game 4 is an idiotic move. He needs to make 3 starts if the series goes 7 games.

[PhillieFever]

Originally Posted by pfreek11

Yeah, I actually said something out loud about it at the time. Seemed completely bizarre to me and I was wondering if I missed something.

There was a section of Yankee fans I believe down the left field line.I'm guessing it was them who were singing.

[PhillieFever]

Originally Posted by CommishJoe

If the Yanks win tomorrow, they'll be in great shape. If they don't, they won't be. With Cliff Lee vs AJ Burnett on short rest, I give the Phils a huge advantage in that game. Phils up 3-2 with Pettitte on short rest scares the heck out of me. If the Yanks win tomorrow, they could throw Gaudin in game 5, then AJ on long rest in game 6 if they felt like it. I still see tomorrow's game to be VERY important to both teams.

Absolutely correct.The Phillies are far from dead,the fans got to CC in last year's playoffs and really rattled him.He didn't make it out of the 4th inning.It needs to happen again.That said,who are the Phillies going to trot out there in games 6 and 7 Pedro and Hamels??? Ugh.I'd take my chances with JA Happ in game 6 and save Pedro for game 7 is necessary.

[phightin]

You start Happ in game 7 maybe as Hamels is shut down for the year obviously but in reality you can't worry about game 7 at this point. I don't blame charlie for not trotting cliff lee out there as pitchers pitching on 3 days rest in the playoffs in recent years have had some horrendous performances and the numbers show high eras sub 500 records etc. Lee has never done it before either so at this point might as well not even risk it. As far as the phillies being dead they're the type of a team that would wow you by winning 8-9 games in a row this season then drop 3-4, thats just who they are. In the playoffs over the past 2 years, and to their credit, all their series wins have basically been demolitions of other teams winning 4-1. If they were playing good baseball then maybe I would agree they still have a punchers chance, but from the ABs I've seen, they're just not there this time.

[mlyons]

I think Hamels might be better off in the bullpen. He's a two pitch guy and his performance drops way off (more so than most starters) his second and third time through an order.

[phightin]

Originally Posted by mlyons

I think Hamels might be better off in the bullpen. He's a two pitch guy and his performance drops way off (more so than most starters) his second and third time through an order.

That and he has a tendency to allow the longball. The thing about Hamels is that when his fastball has good velocity and he can locate it than he really is one of the best in the league. A lot of people want to simply label him a head case, cry baby, and lazy, and rightfully so, but if you watch him pitch throughout the season and this postseason you'll also see his fastball starts out 92-94 and by the 4th or 5th inning its down to 88-89. A lot of people have been thinking and I'm one of them that something isn't right with him whether he's telling us or even knows it himself. If his fastball never recovers than I agree there's no way he can ever be an effective starting pitcher again in the majors and looks like a future Reliever of the Year.

[PhillieFever]

Originally Posted by phightin

That and he has a tendency to allow the longball. The thing about Hamels is that when his fastball has good velocity and he can locate it than he really is one of the best in the league. A lot of people want to simply label him a head case, cry baby, and lazy, and rightfully so, but if you watch him pitch throughout the season and this postseason you'll also see his fastball starts out 92-94 and by the 4th or 5th inning its down to 88-89. A lot of people have been thinking and I'm one of them that something isn't right with him whether he's telling us or even knows it himself. If his fastball never recovers than I agree there's no way he can ever be an effective starting pitcher again in the majors and looks like a future Reliever of the Year.

He actually started the game in the high 80's and it pretty much stayed there all game.Rumors within baseball are that he's got an injured shoulder and/or a tired arm.I guess we'll find out after the season.

[pfreek11]

Originally Posted by PhillieFever

There was a section of Yankee fans I believe down the left field line.I'm guessing it was them who were singing.

Regardless of who was singing, I found it odd that any fans would sing that song in the 6th inning of a 3-run ballgame.

[Déjà Bru]

Originally Posted by pfreek11

Regardless of who was singing, I found it odd that any fans would sing that song in the 6th inning of a 3-run ballgame.

Beer.

[phightin]

Hamels loss looks like ominous sign - MLB News - FOX Sports on MSN

I'm officially done with cole hamels. Not only the season but his career looks like it could be shot as well now. Ton of talent who mentally doesn't have what it takes to pitch in the big leagues. Reminds me a bit of zito. At least this makes it easier in a couple years when we know we won't have to resign him and can use the money elsewhere on guys like howard and werth.

[phightin]

I will say though a lot of new york fans have been stating CC is going against some "no name" tonight and over looking Blanton who is actually a very serviceable pitcher. If not for a horrible april he would have had a low 3 era and overall along with Happ was their most consistent starter over the season. He won't strike a ton a ton of guys out or throw in the mid 90s but he's a guy that will allow 2-3 runs over 6 innings and give his team a chance to win.

[jbergey22]

This isnt good for the Phils. Blanton against CC in a must win game. Blanton may pitch fine against average competition but he will get murdered against the Yankees bats. This game is over after game 6 unless Charlie reconsiders pitching Blanton tonight. Lets see Lee/Sabathia 2.

Its really the only move. Sure the Phils have a huge advantage in game 5 by not pitching Lee tonoght then we get to games 6 and 7 and the Yankees will be huge favs again.

Charlies Matchups Sabathia/Blanton, Burnett/Lee, Pettitte/Pedro, CC/??? or he can gamble being down 2-1 and go Sabathia/Lee, Burnett/Pedro, ???/Pettitte, Lee/Sabathia in game 7. The latter gives the Phillies the only reasonable chance. Win these next 2 and split at Yankee stadium otherwise they are putting the series in CC's hands and that isnt a wise move.

[PhillieFever]

Charlie is pretty much "going all in" with this move tonight.Either Blanton or the bats come up big and they win,tying the series at 2-2 with Lee on deck for game 5,or they go down and pretty much need a miracle to come back.Personally I think it's the right move,we'll see.They really look outgunned at this point with Hamels pretty much finished.

[jbergey22]

It appears hes going all in with j/3 against Aces though. Id take my chances going all in with a decent hand atleast. Who knows anything can happen and Lees never pitched on 3 days rest as far as I know so maybe this is the best play.

[CommishJoe]

Manuel is probably taking Lee's health into account too. Lee has never pitched on 3 days rest before and game 4 of a world series is probably the wrong time to experiment. Blanton is a weird choice because the Yankees know him from his time with the A's and have clobbered him. CC has excelled on 3 days rest in the past so it was a no brainer for Girardi.

For all of the crap I give Girardi, the one move that he made that has really worked is resting CC in September. He ensured he had enough gas in the tank for these 3 day rest starts. Let's hope that trend continues.

[phightin]

I don't disagree with the move by charlie just cause the only reason to pitch lee on 3 days would be to set up for a game 7 and at this point they can't worry about that. The one thing people have to remember is as good as CC has been over the last couple seasons he has been absolutely hammered against the phillies. Even his last start while he only allowed 2 through 7 he was banged around and if the phils had converted on more of their opportunities the game could have easily been 10-1. I'm more worried about how bad the line-up looks than if Blanton can pitch effectively tonight. Charlie would never consider doing this but I would be tempted to put Werth in the 3 spot move Utley to 2 and move Ibanez to 5 and put Victorino at the bottom of the line-up. Or move ruiz to the 2 spot even. Victorino's abs so far have been among the worst I've seen from a player all season.

[Jason Moyer]

I don't think it matters what order you hit in when everyone on your team but Utley and Werth are overrated as hell.

I have no idea how the hell Rollins has been their leadoff hitter for this many years. Outside of one season when he was slightly above average, he's been a mediocre hitter his entire career. An ok hitter for a shortstop, but not a top of the order guy.

My lineup with the current team would be:

Werth
Utley
Ibanez
Howard
Victorino
Ruiz
Rollins
Feliz

Although if it were my call, I'd go for an entirely different left side of the infield.