> Out of the Park Developments > Talk Sports

phightin · 11-09-2009, 12:59 PM

Declined the option on feliz and that's all the talk right now. If they added him to that line-up they would be a lock again for the nl east. Even without him I would think they are. The bullpen problems were largely overblown and mainly came down to injuries and lidge etc. The only thing I think everyone has to remember is that even though they are a big market team they still aren't at the same level as the yankees and sox, and if they make a move to give Beltre long term money than they're setting up potential problems in resigning werth, victorino, howard, hamels (see ya in 2011), and rollins in a couple years.

kq76 · 11-09-2009, 01:15 PM

You have a good point about maybe having problems signing more important guys in the future, but I like to think you do what you can now and worry about the future later. Often the future doesn't turn out the way you expect it to anyway so who knows if you'll have or even want those guys later anyway.

TribeFanInNC · 11-09-2009, 02:38 PM

I'm not a big Beltre fan. This doesn't really sound like a great move for them. At the very least, it would be a pickup with some risk associated with it. Seems like there should be a better option for them, though I'm not sure what that would be at the moment.

jbergey22 · 11-09-2009, 02:45 PM

Beltre is over rated as a hitter but underrated as a fielder oddly enough. I dont think he'd be a good fit for this team. They already have enough lowaverage/ power guys. They need some players that get on base.

progen · 11-09-2009, 02:53 PM

Heard Amaro's in love with Beltre. He's basically a Feliz with slightly more power and a worse glove. After 2004 when he hit 48 bombs and a .334 average(probably roided up), he tailed off considerably. Hit .255, .268, .276, .266, and .265. Averages about 18 errors/year which is ten more than Feliz. Not sure who else is out there but will be worth watching. With me not watching the Eagles this season for the first time since 1961 because they signed the "dog killer", I miss baseball already! Can't wait for spring training!

jbergey22 · 11-09-2009, 03:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by progen

Heard Amaro's in love with Beltre. He's basically a Feliz with slightly more power and a worse glove. After 2004 when he hit 48 bombs and a .334 average(probably roided up), he tailed off considerably. Hit .255, .268, .276, .266, and .265. Averages about 18 errors/year which is ten more than Feliz. Not sure who else is out there but will be worth watching. With me not watching the Eagles this season for the first time since 1961 because they signed the "dog killer", I miss baseball already! Can't wait for spring training!

Hes better defensively than Feliz. He makes a lot of plays Feliz wouldnt have a chance at. He has a cannon arm and that is where a lot of his errors come from. Would you rather have a guy that makes 60 more plays and 10 more errors a year or a guy that makes 60 less plays and 10 less errors a year?

progen · 11-09-2009, 03:13 PM

I'm not a big Feliz fan but Beltre, for how much money? Beltre $13.4M and will expect as much if not more. Feliz - $8.5M and may not get that much in free agency.

Skipaway · 11-09-2009, 03:27 PM

The core of the Pillies are all about 30. It's possible the team is peaking right now and it doesn't hurt raising the stake a bit for the next two years before the team gets old.

Jason Moyer · 11-09-2009, 03:47 PM

Pedro Feliz is terrible, so adding Beltre would at the worst keep them at the same level at third base, even if he hits at or below the level he did this year. Of course, I dunno why they'd want to spend that kind of money on him when there has to be someone in AAA who could come up and play as well as either of them.

I think if they're looking for an older third baseman with potential upside in free agency they'd be better off with Polanco, if he files.

Edit: On a related note, they'll never do this, but I wish they'd make a serious attempt at Holliday.

progen · 11-09-2009, 03:55 PM

Sure, would certainly be an upgrade. This is going to be a "soft" year for free agent talent. And Amaro is very good at keeping an eye on the finances and has so far done very well. And his power at Citizens Bank would be an asset.

PhillieFever · 11-09-2009, 04:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by phightin

Declined the option on feliz and that's all the talk right now. If they added him to that line-up they would be a lock again for the nl east. Even without him I would think they are. The bullpen problems were largely overblown and mainly came down to injuries and lidge etc. The only thing I think everyone has to remember is that even though they are a big market team they still aren't at the same level as the yankees and sox, and if they make a move to give Beltre long term money than they're setting up potential problems in resigning werth, victorino, howard, hamels (see ya in 2011), and rollins in a couple years.

Just what the Phillies need,another power bat who strikes out too much.I'll pass.I'd much rather see then go after Chone Figgins,and finally have a legitimate leadoff guy.

TribeFanInNC · 11-09-2009, 04:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PhillieFever

Just what the Phillies need,another power bat who strikes out too much.I'll pass.I'd much rather see then go after Chone Figgins,and finally have a legitimate leadoff guy.

Yeah, that would be a much better fit if he is available.

phightin · 11-09-2009, 04:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jbergey22

Hes better defensively than Feliz. He makes a lot of plays Feliz wouldnt have a chance at. He has a cannon arm and that is where a lot of his errors come from. Would you rather have a guy that makes 60 more plays and 10 more errors a year or a guy that makes 60 less plays and 10 less errors a year?

He might be as good defensively as feliz but cant be that much better. Feliz was one of the better defensive 3B in the league it was his bat that was a problem. If Beltre can get back to his 07-08 form that would be a huge upgrade but again it depends on the price it will cost. As far as Figgins I don't think it's as good a fit compared to Beltre considering he probably would bat at the bottom of the order in the line-up and the power upside Beltre would have playing at the bank. The team is definetly peaking right now so as someone said here before if they can sign him to a three year at 10-15 million per season I'd be fine with that.

bababui · 11-09-2009, 04:56 PM

Beltre will be a better hitter in Philly than in Seattle because of park factors.

Jason Moyer · 11-09-2009, 05:15 PM

He was still a terrible hitter last year, adjusting for Safeco. His OPS might jump 50 points, but it wouldn't make him any more valuable.

theasfl · 11-09-2009, 05:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by progen

After 2004 when he hit 48 bombs and a .334 average(probably roided up)

The most underrated obviously likely steroid influenced season in MLB history.

mlyons · 11-09-2009, 07:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by phightin

He might be as good defensively as feliz but cant be that much better. Feliz was one of the better defensive 3B in the league it was his bat that was a problem. If Beltre can get back to his 07-08 form that would be a huge upgrade but again it depends on the price it will cost. As far as Figgins I don't think it's as good a fit compared to Beltre considering he probably would bat at the bottom of the order in the line-up and the power upside Beltre would have playing at the bank. The team is definetly peaking right now so as someone said here before if they can sign him to a three year at 10-15 million per season I'd be fine with that.

Figgins would bat leadoff for the Phillies. No question. Rollins might be a sentimental favorite, but Figgins got on base close to 40% of the time last season and managed to steal 42 bases as well. You can make an argument that Rollins might be a better hitter overall (although I'd disagree), but you simply can not argue with a straight face that he's a better leadoff hitter than Figgins.

jbergey22 · 11-09-2009, 08:59 PM

Figgins 3B
Victorino RF
Utley 2B
Howard 1B
Werth CF
Ibanez LF
Rollins SS
Ruiz C

This line up is just scary. If it did happen Charlie would probably put Rollins #2 and screw up this great lineup though.

marc · 11-09-2009, 09:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jbergey22

Figgins 3B
Victorino RF
Utley 2B
Howard 1B
Werth CF
Ibanez LF
Rollins SS
Ruiz C

This line up is just scary. If it did happen Charlie would probably put Rollins #2 and screw up this great lineup though.

All of this.

Give me Figgins please.

yankeesrule · 11-10-2009, 11:12 PM

I would think either Figgins or Polanco if he was game for going to 3B would be a good fit for them. They have the power bats, they could use a solid hitter that'll hit 300, near 400 obp, that can be a grind it out type of player

11-09-2009, 12:59 PM	#1 (permalink)
phightin Major Leagues Join Date: Nov 2008 Posts: 333	Phillies out to get Beltre Declined the option on feliz and that's all the talk right now. If they added him to that line-up they would be a lock again for the nl east. Even without him I would think they are. The bullpen problems were largely overblown and mainly came down to injuries and lidge etc. The only thing I think everyone has to remember is that even though they are a big market team they still aren't at the same level as the yankees and sox, and if they make a move to give Beltre long term money than they're setting up potential problems in resigning werth, victorino, howard, hamels (see ya in 2011), and rollins in a couple years.

11-09-2009, 01:15 PM	#2 (permalink)
kq76 Global Moderator Join Date: Nov 2002 Posts: 6,734 Thanked 56x in 42 posts	You have a good point about maybe having problems signing more important guys in the future, but I like to think you do what you can now and worry about the future later. Often the future doesn't turn out the way you expect it to anyway so who knows if you'll have or even want those guys later anyway. __________________ Useful Links: X Manual - Downloads - Newsletters - Licenses FAQ - Other FAQ - Tech Support Interactive Online League Directory - find or advertise a league today! Canadian Baseball League - uses OOTPX, running steadily since April 2002

11-09-2009, 02:38 PM	#3 (permalink)
TribeFanInNC All Star Starter Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 1,535 Thanked 90x in 76 posts	I'm not a big Beltre fan. This doesn't really sound like a great move for them. At the very least, it would be a pickup with some risk associated with it. Seems like there should be a better option for them, though I'm not sure what that would be at the moment. __________________ Dog Days Baseball: Blackwood Werewolves (retired) Career 728-415 record, 6 Larch Division titles, 1973 Kennel Cup Champions eMLB: Los Angeles Dodgers (fired) Career 161-163 record Stats Only Baseball League: Cleveland Rocks 2009: 83-79 2nd East Division Hardball Heroes: Cleveland Indians 1921: 95-79, AL Pennant, WORLD CHAMPIONS Visit My Dynasty - The Jonas Fossland Story

11-09-2009, 03:13 PM	#7 (permalink)
progen Minors (Double A) Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 177 Thanked 1x in 1 post	I'm not a big Feliz fan but Beltre, for how much money? Beltre $13.4M and will expect as much if not more. Feliz - $8.5M and may not get that much in free agency. Last edited by progen; 11-09-2009 at 03:18 PM.

11-09-2009, 03:27 PM	#8 (permalink)
Skipaway Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Where you live Posts: 10,037 Thanked 8x in 8 posts Infractions: 0/1 (1)	The core of the Pillies are all about 30. It's possible the team is peaking right now and it doesn't hurt raising the stake a bit for the next two years before the team gets old. __________________ Jonathan Haidt: Moral reasoning is really just a servant masquerading as a high priest.

11-09-2009, 02:45 PM	#4 (permalink)
jbergey22 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Minnesota Posts: 2,454 Thanked 60x in 43 posts	Beltre is over rated as a hitter but underrated as a fielder oddly enough. I dont think he'd be a good fit for this team. They already have enough lowaverage/ power guys. They need some players that get on base.

11-09-2009, 02:53 PM	#5 (permalink)
progen Minors (Double A) Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 177 Thanked 1x in 1 post	Heard Amaro's in love with Beltre. He's basically a Feliz with slightly more power and a worse glove. After 2004 when he hit 48 bombs and a .334 average(probably roided up), he tailed off considerably. Hit .255, .268, .276, .266, and .265. Averages about 18 errors/year which is ten more than Feliz. Not sure who else is out there but will be worth watching. With me not watching the Eagles this season for the first time since 1961 because they signed the "dog killer", I miss baseball already! Can't wait for spring training!

11-09-2009, 03:47 PM	#9 (permalink)
Jason Moyer Hall Of Famer Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Pittsburgh Posts: 4,329 Thanked 8x in 5 posts	Pedro Feliz is terrible, so adding Beltre would at the worst keep them at the same level at third base, even if he hits at or below the level he did this year. Of course, I dunno why they'd want to spend that kind of money on him when there has to be someone in AAA who could come up and play as well as either of them. I think if they're looking for an older third baseman with potential upside in free agency they'd be better off with Polanco, if he files. Edit: On a related note, they'll never do this, but I wish they'd make a serious attempt at Holliday. __________________ "I pretty much popped everything cold turkey. We were doing steroids they wouldn't give to horses." -- Tom House "In 1973, the year I first ran for Congress, the House Committee on Interstate and Foreign Commerce concluded a year-long investigation that found--and I quote--'drug use exists...in all sports and levels of competition...In some instances, the danger of improper drug use--primarily amphetamines and anabolic steroids--can only be described as alarming'" -- Henry Waxman Last edited by Jason Moyer; 11-09-2009 at 03:56 PM.

11-09-2009, 03:55 PM	#10 (permalink)
progen Minors (Double A) Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 177 Thanked 1x in 1 post	Sure, would certainly be an upgrade. This is going to be a "soft" year for free agent talent. And Amaro is very good at keeping an eye on the finances and has so far done very well. And his power at Citizens Bank would be an asset.

11-09-2009, 04:56 PM	#14 (permalink)
bababui Hall Of Famer Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 13,647 Thanked 85x in 59 posts Infractions: 0/1 (1)	Beltre will be a better hitter in Philly than in Seattle because of park factors.

11-09-2009, 05:15 PM	#15 (permalink)
Jason Moyer Hall Of Famer Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Pittsburgh Posts: 4,329 Thanked 8x in 5 posts	He was still a terrible hitter last year, adjusting for Safeco. His OPS might jump 50 points, but it wouldn't make him any more valuable. __________________ "I pretty much popped everything cold turkey. We were doing steroids they wouldn't give to horses." -- Tom House "In 1973, the year I first ran for Congress, the House Committee on Interstate and Foreign Commerce concluded a year-long investigation that found--and I quote--'drug use exists...in all sports and levels of competition...In some instances, the danger of improper drug use--primarily amphetamines and anabolic steroids--can only be described as alarming'" -- Henry Waxman

11-09-2009, 08:59 PM	#18 (permalink)
jbergey22 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Minnesota Posts: 2,454 Thanked 60x in 43 posts	Figgins 3B Victorino RF Utley 2B Howard 1B Werth CF Ibanez LF Rollins SS Ruiz C This line up is just scary. If it did happen Charlie would probably put Rollins #2 and screw up this great lineup though.

11-10-2009, 11:12 PM	#20 (permalink)
yankeesrule All Star Starter Join Date: Mar 2003 Posts: 1,251 Thanked 3x in 2 posts	I would think either Figgins or Polanco if he was game for going to 3B would be a good fit for them. They have the power bats, they could use a solid hitter that'll hit 300, near 400 obp, that can be a grind it out type of player

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> Out of the Park Developments > Talk Sports

Phillies out to get Beltre