Pretty Boy, Brady denied again...

[Splitter24]

Originally Posted by Cooleyvol

He's also now 3-3 with all wins being by 3 points.

Hmmm... Brady's only been to 5 Super Bowls. Did he get an extra credit loss somewhere?

Their wins were by 3. Their losses were by 3 and 4. What's you're point, exactly?

[Ragnar]

Originally Posted by Cooleyvol

I think you mean 'name' power. I'd argue they have equal to better talent than New England.

Totally healthy the Giants are better. But names do get you to the pro bowl.

Originally Posted by Postman

The rest of the NFL didn't think so: the Pats had eight pro bowlers, the Giants, two (and Eli was one of them).

I hate the Giants but I was surprised the game was that close. How you play as a team wins games, not how many pro bowlers you have. In 1992 the Buffalo Bills sent more players to the Pro Bowl than the Dallas Cowboys. The two teams did not belong on the same field together. The Bills lost 52-17 and the score was closer than the game. The two teams could have played another 99 times and the pro bowl heavy Bills would have lost 99 more times.

Originally Posted by damientheomen3

I believe I've said this here before, but my main point is that Randall Cobb is the 5th best option to pass to on the team. 5th. This is a kid who would probably be the second or third option on plenty of teams, but the Packers' receiving corps is IMO the best in NFL history (I definitely said that in this thread) and I was really using Flynn's performance to back my statement up in case anyone didn't agree with me (or at least doesn't believe that the team has, far and away, the best receiving corps in the NFL today, which I believe is indisputable).

The mid to late 70's Steelers. The mid 80's to mid 90's 49ers and the early to mid 80's Chargers all had just as good or a better WR corp. And the game wasn't all geared towards passing either.

I know I missed a few but just the teams I mentioned actually had to play good defenses throughout the season. Heck, even the 1999 Rams had to beat two excellent defenses to win the SB just in the playoffs. That is one more than the Packers played all year.

[SWardle]

Originally Posted by Ragnar

Totally healthy the Giants are better. But names do get you to the pro bowl.

Yeah, I think the records fooled a lot of people. ESPN The Magazine broke it down well in their latest issue that was pre-SB. The Patriots didn't beat a single team with a winning record until they squeaked by the Ravens in the AFC Title game. Conversely, the Giants played the toughest schedule in football.

If you switched schedules the records would have likely reversed. The Giants all of a sudden would have been a 12-14 win team and the Patriots would have been the 9-10 win team.

The mid to late 70's Steelers. The mid 80's to mid 90's 49ers and the early to mid 80's Chargers all had just as good or a better WR corp. And the game wasn't all geared towards passing either.

I think the 90's Bills belong in that conversation as well. James Lofton and Andre Reed. The late 90's Vikings as well. Both of those teams had 2 HOF WR's at WR1 and WR2 -- or, eventual HOF WR's.

Greg Jennings still has work to do before we can consider him a HOF'er and Jordy Nelson is definitely not in the HOF discussion yet. It is too early to call it either way on this GB receiving corps. But I am confident in saying it is not better than the late 80's and 90's 49'ers or the Vikings (late 90's) or Bills (early 90's).

[The Chase Davis]

98' 49ers - TO & Jerry Rice...JJ Stokes wasn't too bad that year either. Giving Steve Young his best passing year.

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by SWardle

the Vikings (late 90's) or Bills (early 90's).

Excellent point.

The Vikings also had a 3rd WR in Jake Reed that had a few 1000 yard seasons and possibly a pro bowl or two(cant remember for sure on that). He didnt do much after he left the Vikings but at the time when the Vikings drafted Moss there were a few Vikings fans that I know that didnt think they needed Moss.

[magnet]

As much as I think he deserves it, I'm wondering if Cris Carter will be a HOF wideout...

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by magnet

As much as I think he deserves it, I'm wondering if Cris Carter will be a HOF wideout...

I think he will get in soon enough. His career stats are just too darn impressive for him to get passed over.

[The Chase Davis]

All he does is score Touchdowns

[Goody]

The Giants receivers are way under-rated compared to the "elite passing team" receivers. Eli just chucks it up there half the time and they go get it against all odds.

People hardly mention it, but I think the defining play of this super bowl was Brady escaping the sack and then throwing the int. He was trying to be the big highlight. He was thinking of himself only at that moment. All the other big plays in super bowl history (eli being one of them) were going through his head and he realized he just escaped a sack and was now ready for his "moment".

He just launched it out there. Game, set, match.

NFL.com Blogs » Blog Archive Brady’s pass picked to open fourth quarter «

[Splitter24]

Originally Posted by Goody

The Giants receivers are way under-rated compared to the "elite passing team" receivers. Eli just chucks it up there half the time and they go get it against all odds.

People hardly mention it, but I think the defining play of this super bowl was Brady escaping the sack and then throwing the int. He was trying to be the big highlight. He was thinking of himself only at that moment. All the other big plays in super bowl history (eli being one of them) were going through his head and he realized he just escaped a sack and was now ready for his "moment".

He just launched it out there. Game, set, match.

NFL.com Blogs » Blog Archive Brady’s pass picked to open fourth quarter «

1) Game, set, match? So the game was over after that play? What happened over the next 14:30 didn't matter? Really?

2) You do realize he had a 6'6" All Pro (albeit injured) TE 1-on-1 with a backup LB. You see that matchup downfield, you throw the ball there. Hell, you see that guy being covered 1-on-1 with just about any player in the league in that situation, you make the throw.

If you believe he had the time to think about the "Hero Story" stuff you mention, then you also have to believe he had the time to think about the fact he had a 1,300+ yard 6'6" All Pro TE being covered by a back up LB who the Giants signed off the street.

[Goody]

Originally Posted by Splitter24

If you believe he had the time to think about the "Hero Story" stuff you mention, then you also have to believe he had the time to think about the fact he had a 1,300+ yard 6'6" All Pro TE being covered by a back up LB who the Giants signed off the street.

LB on TE isn't really a mismatch. It wasn't like he was covering a blazing fast wide out. AS you pointed out, his strength is his height. But how tall is Blackburn? True, its all-pro vs. back up...but the play was so far down field that it was extremely offset in the defensive player's favor.

He threw up a prayer, in a close game. The momentum shifted quite a bit with that one play.

[Goody]

And it wasn't like he was a complete pass coverage doofus to the extent that only average QB's would get burned by underestimating him...

Apparently he had 3 interceptions in college. Pretty good for a LB/DE.

"In Week 13 in a game against the Packers, Blackburn recorded an interception against Aaron Rodgers in his own end zone"

A little 5 minute scouting on the 'net shows he's not really a glaring LB on TE mismatch.

[Splitter24]

Originally Posted by Goody

...but the play was so far down field that it was extremely offset in the defensive player's favor.

Why would the play being down field give the defensive player an extreme advantage? If Brady would have tossed a lob 15 yards from the line of scrimmage to a spot where only Blackburn and Gronkowski were, would it have been less in the defender's favor?

[Goody]

Originally Posted by Splitter24

Why would the play being down field give the defensive player an extreme advantage? If Brady would have tossed a lob 15 yards from the line of scrimmage to a spot where only Blackburn and Gronkowski were, would it have been less in the defender's favor?

Yes of course. QB accuracy diminishes with each yard.

On a 15 yard pass you could make an educated guess that Brady has an 80% chance of putting the ball where only his target can reach it.

On a 55 yard pass that % would drop to something like 15%.

And the longer the ball is in the air, the more time defense has to react and come to the ball. The offense loses its element of surprise which is the whole advantage offense has. The QB and the receivers knowing what the play is...is the advantage. West Coast offense is designed to exploit that to the extreme using short passes and timing.

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by Goody

Yes of course. QB accuracy diminishes with each yard.

On a 15 yard pass you could make an educated guess that Brady has an 80% chance of putting the ball where only his target can reach it.

On a 55 yard pass that % would drop to something like 15%.

And the longer the ball is in the air, the more time defense has to react and come to the ball. The offense loses its element of surprise which is the whole advantage offense has. The QB and the receivers knowing what the play is...is the advantage. West Coast offense is designed to exploit that to the extreme using short passes and timing.

What are you even talking about?

These percentages are just complete BS because you randomly made them up but in any case on the longer throw he doesnt need to be as accurate. He is using the skill of Gronk to make that play.

Part of the league evolution has been going to these bigger WRs/TEs that you can just throw it up to and watch them make plays. Randy Moss, Terrell Owens, Antonio Gates, Tony Gonzalez to name a few.

The part where you said Brady was just trying to play a hero shows a complete misunderstanding of the NFL these days and Tom Brady.

It isnt 1983 anymore Goody. The NFL has changed.

[damientheomen3]

Originally Posted by Goody

LB on TE isn't really a mismatch.

You obviously haven't seen any Patriots or Saints games lately.

[Goody]

Originally Posted by jbergey22

What are you even talking about?

These percentages are just complete BS because you randomly made them up but in any case on the longer throw he doesnt need to be as accurate. He is using the skill of Gronk to make that play.

Yes I made up those %'s. I'm not going to analyze every single pass by Brady over the past 5 years to get factual percentages for different pass lengths.

It kinda obvious. If there wasn't any drop off in pass completion % and it is 100% on the receiver's ability...why isn't every single pass play a 50+ yard attempt? That's ridiculous.

The play in question turned out well, didn't it?

[Goody]

Originally Posted by damientheomen3

You obviously haven't seen any Patriots or Saints games lately.

Two elite quarterbacks who spread the ball around to everyone. Jermichael Finley is quite good as well when talking about TE's...what a coincidence.

With those teams you're not really talking about LB/TE mismatch. Its more like receiving corps vs. team defense pass coverage mismatch.

[Goody]

Despite people trying to defend a 55 yard hail mary at the start of the 4th quarter as a good QB decision...

This thread warrants a repost of this gem.

BRADY - YouTube

[jbergey22]

Originally Posted by Goody

Yes I made up those %'s. I'm not going to analyze every single pass by Brady over the past 5 years to get factual percentages for different pass lengths.

It kinda obvious. If there wasn't any drop off in pass completion % and it is 100% on the receiver's ability...why isn't every single pass play a 50+ yard attempt? That's ridiculous.

The play in question turned out well, didn't it?

1. NFL QBs are perfectly capable of being accurate on throws of 50 yards. Well over the 15 percent that you came up with. The problem with throwing this ball is the defense adjusts and you want single coverage to make that pass. You dont want to throw the ball with a safety playing centerfield out there.

Simply because a play didnt turn out well doesnt make it awful. Nothing works 100 percent of the time. The Pats had one of the top offenses this year with no running game to speak of. Hard to really criticize what they do too much.