My Official divorce from baseball

[Carlton]

Like many older guys, I grew up and loved Baseball (Deja Bru is correct, capitalization is key) in the 80's
From the stealing of Henderson,Raines and Coleman
To the bunting of Brett Butler and Lee Mazzilli
CF and SS defense
Lance Johnson and Willie Wilson with their triples
Kirby Puckett,Tony Gwynn and Wade Boggs showed contact had value
Complete games, little known relievers opposite Ps like Nolan Ryan and Greg Maddux could be successful
and yes Home Runs were special...so much so that when someone hit 30...you thought they were someone special

Then that beautiful girl, "Baseball" cheated on me...for money, I left and then came the salt in the wound...Home Runs weren't special anymore, and neither was I.

Yet Baseball came crawling back, said it changed and I believed it.

But she had new children from her affair...individuals who loved numbers more than the intricacy and dance of the sport. There are no intangibles they mocked, there are only numbers. Yet pressed on what the P will throw on this 3-2 count, they missed most of the game while staring at their spreadsheet.

Baseball listened to these new fans and decided everything must be nice, everything must be safe, everything must be FAIR...echoing James Earl Jones line from Field of Dreams

"The one constant through all the years, Ray, has been baseball. America has rolled by like an army of steamrollers. It has been erased like a blackboard, rebuilt and erased again. But baseball has marked the time. "

Well I realize that Major League Baseball is being rebuilt into the New America, and I don't like how that is going either. Not everyone deserves a trophy...

This all come to a head yesterday...I watched the USA vs Portugal World Cup and was looking at defenders on the pitch, cursing players for questionable positions and saw the USA fall to a draw with a magnificent play in the last 10 seconds. A sport I used to scoff, because it had ties was not a horrible way to spend 1 1/2. It wasn't great...but not horrible.

But then the Angels-Rangers game came on, Darvish vs Shoemaker...a rarity where two Pitchers who take only 10 seconds between pitches would face one another.With the best player in the game...Mike Trout.

First it came...a failed SB, TIME STOP, the umpire must be questioned, manager must come out and we wait...
Then Mike Trout is shown to not hit the high strike 0-32 with 25 Ks with pitches in the top half of the zone...and the realization hit. He isn't GREAT...he is playing the he pseudo strike zone against his opponents. The new age stats only way of thinking have always stated to not throw high in the zone, and the myopic teachings of baseball nowadays have ONE major commandment "Thou shall throw low" Trout only swings in 1/3rd of the strike zone, knowing how cookie cutter today's pitchers are...a stab in the gut that Trout would be hitting .250 in the 80's because he'd be forced to climb the ladder (an old term in baseball when the strike zone was called)
Well it was walk,K,K, walk, K...I was embarrassed that this is what Baseball was now

But then a play at the plate...this is EXCITING

STOP PLAY

Catcher may have blocked the plate (now illegal...ugh) and he may be safe (another umpire is wrong until proving right situation) and my slight emotional input disappeared with a 10 minute delay...

I bowed my head slightly, shook it, and wiped the small tear coming from my eye. This great game that once was a high speed chess match has (de?)evolved into dinner with an estranged lover...a text break here, a phone call there, a bathroom break, a change of topics, anything but the underlining topic itself and of course, there was awkwardness. I mentally signed the divorce papers right there. I will finish my last fantasy Baseball season and that will be that. I'll have OOTP and my 1901 league for memories, but I will never spend another minute nor dollar on this horrendous excuse of what was once Baseball ever again. I will not have to see Super Mario hats on Pitchers, or aluminum bats or the DH in both leagues. I have that going for me...

I changed the channel after only 1 inning, yes I watched 90 minutes+ of soccer and only 15 minutes of ONE inning of boring Baseball and watched Mr. Baseball, an under rated baseball movie instead.

EDIT- I KNEW this thread would go this way...maybe I wanted to cement the above by having some of you prove it. Masochist

[wireman]

So you're getting older. You'll get over it. And baseball will still be here -- but she'll be sleeping with me.

[CD1083]

The only thing that is constant is change. Even in the world of baseball.

[Splitter24]

That xxx got 70% of the $$, the house and the cars, didn't she?

[Westheim]

This is interesting. I have come the other way from association football to baseball. I have come to despise football, errr ... soccer. The same disgusting teams always winning, the same repulsive players staring at you from every form of media imaginable, players intentionally trying to break each others legs, grabbing each other balls, spitting at each other...

And then there is baseball. Granted, I have not been around for very long, but I never want to witness anything else ever again.

Well, baseball and auto racing. But that's it.

[RchW]

No advanced stats just raw numbers. It seems that being a 30+ HR guy in 2013 is very special.

1987 28 players with 30+ HR note 26 teams vs 30
2013 14 players with 30+ HR

1987 79 players with 20+ HR note 26 teams vs 30
2013 68 players with 20+ HR

1987 8 pitchers with 200+ K note 26 teams vs 30
2013 12 pitchers with 200+ K

1987 15 pitchers with 190+ K note 26 teams vs 30
2013 22 pitchers with 190+ K

Triples no doubt, 40% more triples

1987 the top 10 hit 113 T
2013 the top 10 hit 92 T

Bottom line strikeouts are up scoring is down pitchers are better and everything else is the same.

Edit LOL if Mike Trout was hitting against some of the lollipops being thrown then he'd be a threat to to bat 0.400 and get 50 HR

[wireman]

The year I first set foot in Griffith Stadium, 8 MLB players hit 30+ homers, 25 hit 20+. No pitcher had more than 185 strikeouts (although 11 topped 250 innings).

Those were great days. But baseball didn't betray me by changing.

I've changed a little myself.

[kq76]

As soon as I saw the title I had a feeling it'd be largely about the time it takes to do replays. I totally agree. I'll admit, while others were, I wasn't concerned about it before it was brought in, but it drives me nuts now. I don't need everything to be fair either. I do, however, need things to be exciting and have drama.

And I agree with the notion that sabermetrics is slowly killing enjoyment in the game too. I was an early adopter of sabermetrics myself, but it's getting to the point that we're losing sight of what made baseball so special in the first place. I totally related to your introduction, the part about base-stealing and defense, bunting and hitting for contact. And yes, understanding stats like OBP and SLG (and even some more advanced ones like BsR) can add to the enjoyment of the game, but I think once people get to the point where they're grading players based on stats that even their evangelists don't fully understand or they can't easily teach others then they're likely missing out on the real beauty of the game. I'll admit, for awhile I got my kicks out of staring at a spreadsheet comparing players, but then I realized, I'm not watching the game anymore. I'm missing out on the stuff that made me fall in love with it in the first place. Being able to reason out why the best players are the best is great, but seeing great baserunning and great defensive plays will always be what gives me the greatest enjoyment from the game. So what if Tony Fernandez wasn't Barry Bonds, I'd always much rather watch him.

[Questdog]

That's why Billy Hamilton is the reason to watch the Reds, not Joey Votto.

BTW, Votto's got something wrong going on in his head.....the more I watch him, the more I am convinced that he is extremely self-conscious about appearing foolish on the field, which of course makes him look foolish.....

I agree with most of the OP, but I don't care about people trying to be hip with the stats. Idiots are idiots, no matter what information they have in their pocket.

The number one issue that sucks my enjoyment out of watching a game is batters stepping out after every pitch and taking forever to get back in the box. BORING! Votto is one of the worst offenders. I love him, don't get me wrong, but there are some things I would change about him if I could.

I'm reading a Minor League Baseball Encyclopedia and they talk about games being finished in under an hour. I would LOVE to have seen one of those; I bet the action would make our modern heads spin. There was one game in some Texas league where the final score was like 45-14 and it took 2 and half hours to play.

[rudel.dietrich]

Originally Posted by kq76

And I agree with the notion that sabermetrics is slowly killing enjoyment in the game too. I was an early adopter of sabermetrics myself, but it's getting to the point that we're losing sight of what made baseball so special in the first place. I totally related to your introduction, the part about base-stealing and defense, bunting and hitting for contact. And yes, understanding stats like OBP and SLG (and even some more advanced ones like BsR) can add to the enjoyment of the game, but I think once people get to the point where they're grading players based on stats that even their evangelists don't fully understand or they can't easily teach others then they're likely missing out on the real beauty of the game. I'll admit, for awhile I got my kicks out of staring at a spreadsheet comparing players, but then I realized, I'm not watching the game anymore. I'm missing out on the stuff that made me fall in love with it in the first place. Being able to reason out why the best players are the best is great, but seeing great baserunning and great defensive plays will always be what gives me the greatest enjoyment from the game. So what if Tony Fernandez wasn't Barry Bonds, I'd always much rather watch him.

Isn't the entire reason to win
How is that losing sight of the game? Baseball is a business with a lot of money invested into it. Sabermetrics is really not that hard of a concept to understand. At it's core it is all about maximizing wins per dollar spent.

If advanced analysis methods can lead to better grading player performance and thus spending, then Sabermetrics have enhanced the game immeasurably.


Advanced stats and analysis are also starting to make there way into professional soccer and basketball. Front offices are catching on that making small investments into hiring very smart people to analyze data that has always been available can improve on field/court performance and save big time dollars.

[kq76]

Originally Posted by rudel.dietrich

Isn't the entire reason to win

It's not my reason. My reason is to be entertained. Sure, my team winning is often entertaining, but I've seen my teams in various sports win and I've regretted wasting my time watching. I've also often enjoyed games where my teams have lost, as long as they were entertaining.

[RchW]

Accusing sabermetrics of killing enjoyment in the game is the biggest cop out ever. Destroying it for who? Certainly not for me and I like advanced stats. Critiques of advanced stats have increasingly become strident and full of false claims about the people who present and enjoy them, and, the stats themselves.

By all means don't like baseball. That's absolutely a free choice. Please stop with all the crapola that Sabermetrics and the people that like them are destroying Baseball and/or the enjoyment of it.

Sheesh.

[Questdog]

Originally Posted by rudel.dietrich

Isn't the entire reason to win
How is that losing sight of the game? Baseball is a business with a lot of money invested into it. Sabermetrics is really not that hard of a concept to understand. At it's core it is all about maximizing wins per dollar spent.

If advanced analysis methods can lead to better grading player performance and thus spending, then Sabermetrics have enhanced the game immeasurably.


Advanced stats and analysis are also starting to make there way into professional soccer and basketball. Front offices are catching on that making small investments into hiring very smart people to analyze data that has always been available can improve on field/court performance and save big time dollars.

The product on the field has to be able to hold someone's interest. Merely the fact that it is a contest between two teams is not enough. There has to be athletic action in a timely manner. If it was discovered that the best offense was to take every pitch, it would not be in baseball's interest to allow the strategy to be enacted.....

[wireman]

Originally Posted by Questdog

The product on the field has to be able to hold someone's interest. Merely the fact that it is a contest between two teams is not enough. There has to be athletic action in a timely manner. If it was discovered that the best offense was to take every pitch, it would not be in baseball's interest to allow the strategy to be enacted.....

Well, let's not do that then. And let's not bunt every pitch either.

[rudel.dietrich]

Originally Posted by Questdog

The product on the field has to be able to hold someone's interest. Merely the fact that it is a contest between two teams is not enough. There has to be athletic action in a timely manner. If it was discovered that the best offense was to take every pitch, it would not be in baseball's interest to allow the strategy to be enacted.....

I completely agree that the length of games is one of the gravest issues facing baseball. But blaming Sabermetrics is a ridiculous way to try and solve it.

There are many other measures that could be enacted to speed up the game.

Asking teams to stop trying to analyze the the most efficient way to play the game and win the game is essentially asking front offices to be willfully dumb.
That makes no sense to me at all

[Questdog]

Originally Posted by rudel.dietrich

I completely agree that the length of games is one of the gravest issues facing baseball. But blaming Sabermetrics is a ridiculous way to try and solve it.

There are many other measures that could be enacted to speed up the game.

Asking teams to stop trying to analyze the the most efficient way to play the game and win the game is essentially asking front offices to be willfully dumb.
That makes no sense to me at all

I don't think that's what I meant to say....

But taking walks is not a very exciting thing to watch and neither are strikeouts, both byproducts of the new emphasis on statistical analysis. Baseball should not ban teams from enacting strategies, but should do things to make the strategies less attractive or less possible. I'm thinking that moving the rubber back another 5 feet might be a good thing. Might be a ridiculous thing, too, though. Or getting rid of the mound.

But we want players hitting the ball and running the bases and players making defensive plays. Those are the things that are fun to watch. Walks, strikeouts and home runs are not enjoyable to watch (you've seen one; you've seen them all), but do offer something to the dramatic aspect of the game, rather than the aesthetic. However, when the game becomes over-saturated with them, they lose their dramatic impact and then offer nothing.

[spit ball]

Baseball has been going downhill since the mid-seventies. Slowly. Chip chip chip. It gets worse a little at a time. Football (American) also for different reasons over the last several years. And basketball since Michael Jordan retired. I no longer follow sports at all and get my fix from playing OOTP historical games.

[Le Grande Orange]

Originally Posted by Carlton

Then that beautiful girl, "baseball" cheated on me...for money...

Are you under the mistaken impression that professional sports wasn't always about the money? It's been about the money since the very first day a club owner decided to pay his players and charge admission.

Originally Posted by spit ball

Baseball has been going downhill since the mid-seventies.

Care to quantify that? Because otherwise I read that as, "Baseball isn't doing things the way I think it should be doing them."

[Carlton]

Originally Posted by Westheim

This is interesting. I have come the other way from association football to baseball. I have come to despise football, errr ... soccer. The same disgusting teams always winning, the same repulsive players staring at you from every form of media imaginable, players intentionally trying to break each others legs, grabbing each other balls, spitting at each other...

And then there is baseball. Granted, I have not been around for very long, but I never want to witness anything else ever again.

Well, baseball and auto racing. But that's it.

I think it's just the novelty of the World Cup, but before this year...NEVER did I find myself actually tolerant of soccer and so disgusted with baseball

It was a horrible ephihany.
I am sure if I was in Europe and soccer was all over, I couldn't stand it

Originally Posted by kq76

As soon as I saw the title I had a feeling it'd be largely about the time it takes to do replays. I totally agree. I'll admit, while others were, I wasn't concerned about it before it was brought in, but it drives me nuts now. I don't need everything to be fair either. I do, however, need things to be exciting and have drama.

I think it's the fans and front office staff (who are those fans) that use them as an extreme...and try to be misleading in order to be "right"
Why did RCW use 1987 in contrast to 2013? Because it was more extreme and could prove his 'point' better.
His point was...I was wrong, THAT'S it.
The fans today are cynical, contentious and rude to the point of condescention.

I want to talk about a HUMAN BEING playing baseball...that doesn't happen anymore.

I don't blame the numbers, nor many of the people creating them...but when the kids find the liquor cabinet, that's the problem

I am also with you on the entertaiment part, putting the ball in play is a BIG part of that excitement for me

[Carlton]

Originally Posted by Le Grande Orange

Are you under the mistaken impression that professional sports wasn't always about the money? It's been about the money since the very first day a club owner decided to pay his players and charge admission.


Care to quantify that? Because otherwise I read that as, "Baseball isn't doing things the way I think it should be doing them."

Alway like you to take a simple statement and try and twist it to patronize someone...doesn't that act get old with other people?
It's his opinion...leave it at that.