The Oakland Athletics 2014-15 Offseason Thread

[Green & Gold Heart]

Free agents: Jon Lester, Jason Hammell, Jed Lowrie, Luke Gregerson, Alberto Callaspo, Adam Dunn, Geovanny Soto, Jonny Gomes

Playing shortstop for us next year: Andy Parino?

[Lafayette53]

looking forward to the four year rebuilding process

[mirrf]

Originally Posted by Green & Gold Heart

[Free agents: Jon Lester, Jason Hammell, Jed Lowrie, Luke Gregerson, Alberto Callaspo, Adam Dunn, Geovanny Soto, Jonny Gomes

Playing shortstop for us next year: Andy Parino?

I've soured on Lowrie. An average hitter with sub-par defense. Parino is a sub-par hitter with good fielding. He isn't a downgrade in my opinion. It's just we need upgrades at this point.

Do we have a shot at getting any of these people? I guess the only person I'd even want of those people is Gregerson. Maybe Soto.

[Green & Gold Heart]

Originally Posted by mirrf

I've soured on Lowrie.

Same here. I had said numerous times this season, especially after the Samardzija trade, that we should try to re-sign him. No longer. His lack of range was a glaring weak spot last night. We can not sacrifice on defense so much at such an important position.

Originally Posted by mirrf

Do we have a shot at getting any of these people? I guess the only person I'd even want of those people is Gregerson. Maybe Soto.

Yeah, I'd try to retain Gregerson and Soto. Jaso won't ever catch again and I like Vogt as a swing man third catcher/first baseman. This is assuming we keep Norris. I think a bum shoulder contributed to his throwing problems this year. He's been better.

And depending on how much it costs, I actually wouldn't be opposed to trying to keep Hammel. He's a veteran and outside of the first couple of weeks he was on the team, he was pretty darn good.

I don't think we can count on either Griffin or Parker contributing next year. Sure, they may rehab from TJS and be back, but we have to consider it a bonus if/when they do. Rotation of Samardzija - Gray - Kazmir - Hammell - Pomeranz could be solid.

[Green & Gold Heart]

My shopping list if I was playing OOTP with this team: Shortstop, second baseman, one outfielder.

[Lafayette53]

Here's the real burning question: Do the A's try to stretch out their competitive window further or do they just go for a full "rebuild" ala 2008-2011?

Certainly with Shark, Donaldson, and a few other pieces returning they can try to stretch it, but no help is coming from the farm for a long time after trading away Russell so there's an argument to be made that its time to tear it down. Especially with the rest of the AL West about to hit its stride.

I guess I just don't see a good middle infielder fixing the A's holes next season.

[mirrf]

Originally Posted by Green & Gold Heart

My shopping list if I was playing OOTP with this team: Shortstop, second baseman, one outfielder.

The middle infield has got to be the top priority. I just don't know how we could address it. We don't really have a farm to bring people up from, nor do we have really tradable pieces, nor do we have cash to sign quality free agents.

As much as I would like to get a player like J.J. Hardy, I don't think we could shell out the money for him.

[Lukas Berger]

Originally Posted by Lafayette53

Here's the real burning question: Do the A's try to stretch out their competitive window further or do they just go for a full "rebuild" ala 2008-2011?

Certainly with Shark, Donaldson, and a few other pieces returning they can try to stretch it, but no help is coming from the farm for a long time after trading away Russell so there's an argument to be made that its time to tear it down. Especially with the rest of the AL West about to hit its stride.

I guess I just don't see a good middle infielder fixing the A's holes next season.

I think the Russell trade actually makes the opposite argument. Does it make any sense to tear it down after trading away the farm this year?

When Beane decided to give up a potential superstar in Russell and arguably Oakland's #2 prospect in McKinney - for a couple average pitchers - he fully committed to contending, not only for this year but into the next few years imo.

There's nothing much left on the farm to rebuild with now, so it makes no sense to rebuild while there's still something left on the MLB team.

Frankly I think the A's are in a bit of a bad spot now. I hated the Russell trade when it happened and it looks even worse now. It looks like it might rival the notorious Kazmir-Zambrano trade as one of the worst deals in the last 10-15 years.

Beane really screwed up this year imo, and I say that as a card carrying Beane worshiper. If you're going to trade someone like Russell, you have to get an actual elite return, not a guy who's been dreadfully inconsistent and has better results than his peripherals indicate he should have, in Samardzjia and a generic #4-5 starter in Hammel.

Plus, if you're going to mortgage any hope of a future for the present, you'd better make darn sure there is a present that's worth the price, which there clearly wasn't. By "fixing" holes where there were none (SP) at the expense of places that were actually weak, hitting and the farm, I think Beane got into a situation where the A's got the worst of both worlds.

As you can see, I'm pretty furious with Billy, for the first time in my life

[Green & Gold Heart]

Originally Posted by lukasberger

Plus, if you're going to mortgage any hope of a future for the present, you'd better make darn sure there is a present that's worth the price, which there clearly wasn't. By "fixing" holes where there were none (SP) at the expense of places that were actually weak, hitting and the farm, I think Beane got into a situation where the A's got the worst of both worlds.

I gotta highlight out this part and disagree with you here. SP was not a hole? Jesse Chavez was going to carry us to the division crown then. I think the front office saw the writing on the wall that the rotation was overachieving and they went and got reinforcements. Just look at how Kazmir and Gray regressed in August & September. As much as what happens on the field is a tossup (just look at last night for exhibit A) good pitching usually beats good hitting.

And the hitting wasn't weak. We had the best run differential in MLB and the most runs scored at the time of the trade. They dealt from a strength to add to a (perceived future) weakness. And then who could've seen what happened coming. Cespedes wasn't responsible for 1.5 runs per game.

[Green & Gold Heart]

We've survived **** ups from Billy Beane before. Tim Hudson to Atlanta. CarGo to Colorado for three months of Matt Holliday. And now Russell for Samardzija (jury's still out on that really) and Cespedes for Lester. We'll survive this one.

[Lukas Berger]

Originally Posted by Green & Gold Heart

I gotta highlight out this part and disagree with you here. SP was not a hole? Jesse Chavez was going to carry us to the division crown then. I think the front office saw the writing on the wall that the rotation was overachieving and they went and got reinforcements. Just look at how Kazmir and Gray regressed in August & September. As much as what happens on the field is a tossup (just look at last night for exhibit A) good pitching usually beats good hitting.

And the hitting wasn't weak. We had the best run differential in MLB and the most runs scored at the time of the trade. They dealt from a strength to add to a (perceived future) weakness. And then who could've seen what happened coming. Cespedes wasn't responsible for 1.5 runs per game.

Chavez pretty well = Hammel, and maybe is even better. So was Hammel going to lead them to the division crown?

Hammel is not a good pitcher, never has been. And while improving the rotation is good in theory, I never though Samardjzia was the guy to do it for the reasons mentioned above. Lester, sure I can see that and I'm not going to jump on that deal.

Looking at career numbers and expected results, I think it could easily have been argued that the hitters were performing far more over their head than the pitchers were during the early part of the year.

[Lukas Berger]

And while I'm slamming Billy, what the heck was the Sam Fuld thing all about?

Dump him on waivers only to have to give up a solid pitcher in Milone to get him back Why?

This year was just an unmitigated disaster for him. Any other GM would be sacked after this sort of year.

I'm certainly not advocating firing Beane, he's still as good a GM as there is and maybe the A's biggest asset, but I think he and the entire front office should probably take a really hard look at their process and see if there needs to be some changes to how they do things.

[Green & Gold Heart]

Originally Posted by lukasberger

Looking at career numbers and expected results, I think it could easily have been argued that the hitters were performing far more over their head than the pitchers were during the early part of the year.

Very possible. I also think they had the platoons working well in the first half, when Jaso was healthy so you didn't have D-No getting exposed by righties, and other guys like Coco and Moss pre-injury. Vogt was playing over his head though. Still like the guy but he was living on BABIP luck for awhile there.

[Green & Gold Heart]

Originally Posted by lukasberger

And while I'm slamming Billy, what the heck was the Sam Fuld thing all about?

Dump him on waivers only to have to give up a solid pitcher in Milone to get him back Why?

And you know what stings the most about that? We waived Fuld and kept Daric Barton on the roster. Daric Barton!

Not that I think Milone is all that. He's a flyball pitcher who can pitch at O.co and that's about it.

Fuld did turn out to be a pretty necessary get though, with Gentry & Crisp injuries late in the season. Just shoulda dumped Barton and kept him all along, and we'd still have Tommy in AAA.

[Lukas Berger]

Originally Posted by Green & Gold Heart

Not that I think Milone is all that. He's a flyball pitcher who can pitch at O.co and that's about it.

Sure, I'll give you that. But, since I'm picking on Hammel, Milone is pretty much equal to Hammel.

So one is worth trading 1/5th of Addison Russell or maybe Billy McKinney straight up for, and the other is only worth trading away for a guy you waived a couple months before? I don't get that at all.

Oh well. Like you say, I'm sure the A's will survive this.

[Green & Gold Heart]

When you're in a pennant race a major league outfielder - even if it's a Sam Fuld - may be more valuable to you than a higher ceiling A-ball outfielder.

It sucks though when it all turns out to be for naught.

[Lafayette53]

Originally Posted by lukasberger

I think the Russell trade actually makes the opposite argument. Does it make any sense to tear it down after trading away the farm this year?

Well thats the point of a rebuild isn't it? You accept a couple of years of losing and restock a barren farm system to make a run in a few years time. I know the A's front office has come out against the traditional rebuild narrative, i.e. they at least make a halfbaked effort at putting a competitive product on the field (not a single under-70 win team during Beanes tenure) but if restocking the farm is necessary it doesn't necessarily make sense to put it off too long.

[Lafayette53]

Originally Posted by Green & Gold Heart

When you're in a pennant race a major league outfielder - even if it's a Sam Fuld - may be more valuable to you than a higher ceiling A-ball outfielder.

It sucks though when it all turns out to be for naught.

Yeah of all the things to criticize this season the Milone trade ranks pretty low. Yeah Milone is a useful piece, but with all the position player injuries the A's had Fuld actually proved to be pretty useful depth.

[Lukas Berger]

Originally Posted by Lafayette53

Yeah of all the things to criticize this season the Milone trade ranks pretty low. Yeah Milone is a useful piece, but with all the position player injuries the A's had Fuld actually proved to be pretty useful depth.

Well, I'm not criticizing the Milone trade as such. Milone for Fuld is a fine trade in and of itself.

I'm criticizing giving Fuld away for no reason, thus necessitating trading Milone just to get him back.

[Lukas Berger]

Originally Posted by Green & Gold Heart

When you're in a pennant race a major league outfielder - even if it's a Sam Fuld - may be more valuable to you than a higher ceiling A-ball outfielder.

It sucks though when it all turns out to be for naught.

Yeah, but they didn't trade McKinney for Fuld, they traded him for Hammel. And Hammel is no better than 6-7 pitchers they already had in the org at that point in time.

Now if it was already going to take Russell and McKinney just to get Samardzjia and Hammel was a straight up throw-in, that makes a difference. But since Hammel was being hotly pursued by some other teams, I'm pretty sure that wasn't the case.