Super bowl?

[old fart]

About a week away and no mention here. No mention of the incredible Seahawk comeback. No mention of deflatedballsgate. Is nobody here interested in football?

[Déjà Bru]

Although it probably deserves its own thread, I will comment here that this deflated football thing may be big . . . much bigger than it first appeared.

For one thing, and I am a bit ashamed of this, but after decades of watching NFL football, I had no idea that each team uses its own set of footballs in the game. When I first heard about deflateagate, I said "Big whoop. Regardless, they are both using the same ball(s) so even playing field." Wrong!

Then we found out that the Colts were tipped off by the Ravens; the Colts alerted the refs; the refs checked at half-time; and sure enough the Patriots were using their soft and squishy footballs. Somebody surer than heck did something because that did not happen naturally but did happen as predicted by people who knew.

I don't trust that s---bag Belichick - I have never liked that guy - but the guy who really looks like he is lying is Brady. I mean, think of this: Linebackers and safeties who intercepted Brady noticed but Brady himself, who handles the ball more than any other player on the field except perhaps the opposing quarterback, did not? Ridiculous. And getting back to Belichick, he is not the type of head coach that would have something like this going on behind his back.

The irony about this is that the Patriots didn't need the help to get this far. But cheating is cheating and I hate it in sports. Somebody's head should roll, and that includes star quarterbacks and holier-than-thou coaches.

[Jason Moyer]

Like every cheating scandal, until I see evidence to the contrary, my assumption is that almost everyone was doing something similar and the only reason it became news now is because a successful team who is generally disliked was doing it. Same thing with spygate (my god, could you people name scandals after something other than Watergate, ffs), same thing with PEDs in the olympics/cycling/football/baseball, same thing with spitballs, etc.

[old fart]

Bru thanks for the insight. I don't think there will be a problem in the super bowl. Something tells me the Seahawks will have Brady's balls checked carefully.

What I think is the Pats should be penalized. Like no post season for two years.

[Steve509]

I'm surprised none of the referees were suspicious during the game(s). They handle them quite a bit, between players tossing them the ball, and marking the ball on the field. I'm guessing that it was a subtle difference compared to a ball within the legal psi(I honestly don't know).

I guess the refs will have to check the game balls right before the game starts(and again at half time) and not 2 hours prior. A better idea is after the balls are checked for both teams, why not lock them in a neutral room, or keep them with the officials which would avoid any tampering. Anyways, I don't think much will happen in terms of punishment, if anything, it probably will be a fine, or at most a loss of draft pick.

As for the Super Bowl, I honestly get bored with most of them. Not the play itself, but I get bored with the commentators, and the endless amount of commercial breaks. I know the breaks are a spectacle in itself, but sometimes it just kills the flow of the game. As for this year, I think the Seahawks will repeat as champions. That defense is just too dominant to pick against. With that said, I'm hoping this game will be competitive and be a nail biter to the last second.

[Bluenoser]

Personally I don't give a rats a$$ about the football thing. If it wasn't that, the media would have dug something else up to babble about for 2 weeks.

It doesn't matter anyway, because as usual, the court of public opinion has already found them guilty.

No wonder the media continues to smear whatever they want in the papers, because they know there are so many gullible people out there who will read it and believe it.

Even if the investigation proves no wrong doing, they're guilty - the public has decided.


What a joke.

[Splitter24]

Originally Posted by Déjà Bru

Then we found out that the Colts were tipped off by the Ravens...

...Linebackers and safeties who intercepted Brady noticed but Brady himself, who handles the ball more than any other player on the field except perhaps the opposing quarterback, did not?

First off, yes I'm a Pats fan. So you can discount what I say if you want to. But let's go with some facts:

1) The Ravens did not tip off the Colts about underinflated footballs. John Harbaugh himself said that the Ravens didn't notice anything wrong with the footballs.

2) D'Qwell Jackson, the Colts player who intercepted Brady was reported by Chris Mortensen to have said the ball seemed underinflated. This has proven to be untrue. Jackson himself has said he didn't notice anything wrong with the ball. He wanted it as a souvenier. This, of course, doesn't mean there wasn't something wrong with it. Just that the player didn't notice it.

3) It is possible to me that Brady didn't notice the difference. It's also possible that he not only knew about it, but initiated it. There has been an ad nauseum amount of "football pressure testing" done in television studios by people with mixed results (Mark Brunell said he noticed the difference, Joe Theismann said he did not). But the obvious difference between an in-studio test and Tom Brady's ability to notice the difference is this: The studio guys have nothing else to do but think about which of two balls has 2 PSI more or less air in it when comparing them at the same time. They know in advance they're being quizzed on these footballs. It's all they're doing at the time. In a warm dry studio. People are applying the same standard to Tom Brady who doesn't know he's being asked to compare them. Who also happens to be concentrating on winning a Conference Championship Game. On a 45 degree night. In the rain. Who is being asked 24 hours later if he noticed the difference between a ball he used in the 1st half vs. a ball he used in the 2nd half. So you're saying it's impossible he didn't know the difference? I think if it's true that he had nothing to do with it, it's just as likely (if not more) that he didn't notice a difference, mainly because he didn't know to think about it. Again, this isn't me defending his innocence. Because if the balls were manipulated, I believe it's most likely that it would have been done with his input.

4) As much as Bellichick comes off as a scumbag, it's going to be extremely difficult to link him to this unless Brady or an equipment guy comes forward and says "yes, we did it and Bellichick knew about it." This would not absolve him of punishment if the manipulation of footballs happens to be true. After all, Sean Payton was going to face punishment for the Bounty affair in New Orleans. But the severity of his own individual punishment stemmed from the fact that he lied to Goodell about knowing about it, then had to admit that he did when one of his staff proved that Payton knew about it. That same standard would apply to Bellichick. I find it more plausible that if there was manipulation of the footballs, the guilty individual on the Patriots is more likely to be Brady rather than Bellichick. Which doesn't mean that Bellichick couldn't be guilty of knowledge of it. Just that without an actual admission from somebody, it's going to be impossible to prove that he's lying about not knowing about it.

[Ragnar]

Originally Posted by Déjà Bru

Although it probably deserves its own thread, I will comment here that this deflated football thing may be big . . . much bigger than it first appeared.

I think it's smaller. I'd call it a witch hunt.

Originally Posted by Déjà Bru

For one thing, and I am a bit ashamed of this, but after decades of watching NFL football, I had no idea that each team uses its own set of footballs in the game. When I first heard about deflateagate, I said "Big whoop. Regardless, they are both using the same ball(s) so even playing field." Wrong!

I didn't know this either.

Originally Posted by Déjà Bru

I don't trust that s---bag Belichick - I have never liked that guy - but the guy who really looks like he is lying is Brady. I mean, think of this: Linebackers and safeties who intercepted Brady noticed but Brady himself, who handles the ball more than any other player on the field except perhaps the opposing quarterback, did not? Ridiculous. And getting back to Belichick, he is not the type of head coach that would have something like this going on behind his back.

Did they really notice? Or were they keeping the balls because they were pre-warned? As far as Brady not knowing, of course he knew. He probably felt more comfortable throwing a slightly under inflated ball. But do you expect him to come out and say, yeah, I deflated the balls to under legal limits?

Originally Posted by Déjà Bru

The irony about this is that the Patriots didn't need the help to get this far. But cheating is cheating and I hate it in sports. Somebody's head should roll, and that includes star quarterbacks and holier-than-thou coaches.

The irony is everything here. It doesn't matter. I wouldn't go as far as calling it cheating either. A slightly under inflated ball is now cheating? Please!

Originally Posted by Jason Moyer

Like every cheating scandal, until I see evidence to the contrary, my assumption is that almost everyone was doing something similar and the only reason it became news now is because a successful team who is generally disliked was doing it. Same thing with spygate (my god, could you people name scandals after something other than Watergate, ffs), same thing with PEDs in the olympics/cycling/football/baseball, same thing with spitballs, etc.

Well said. Envy of Patriots success is the driving factor. Tampa Bay could be using college footballs and no one would say a thing.

Originally Posted by old fart

Bru thanks for the insight. I don't think there will be a problem in the super bowl. Something tells me the Seahawks will have Brady's balls checked carefully.

What I think is the Pats should be penalized. Like no post season for two years.

This isn't college football, this has no chance of happening. Fines, suspensions, and draft picks are the only options.

Originally Posted by Steve509

I'm surprised none of the referees were suspicious during the game(s). They handle them quite a bit, between players tossing them the ball, and marking the ball on the field. I'm guessing that it was a subtle difference compared to a ball within the legal psi(I honestly don't know).

They weren't suspicious because it wasn't noticeable. This is akin to the George Brett pine tar incident.

Originally Posted by Steve509

As for the Super Bowl, I honestly get bored with most of them. Not the play itself, but I get bored with the commentators, and the endless amount of commercial breaks. I know the breaks are a spectacle in itself, but sometimes it just kills the flow of the game. As for this year, I think the Seahawks will repeat as champions. That defense is just too dominant to pick against. With that said, I'm hoping this game will be competitive and be a nail biter to the last second.

Remember the Steelers/Cardinals Super Bowl? A team scores a TD, commercial break. Kickoff, commercial break. Run one play, end of first quarter, commercial break. I wanted to kill someone.

[Ragnar]

I think the Patriots are like many other teams in the NFL during this salary cap era, average. They are an average team with a really good QB. The Seahawks are the only rare exception of being a good all around team. So barring a slew of Seahawk turnovers I don't see this game being much different than last year's. Maybe not quite as big a blowout.

Seattle- 34
Patriots-17

[rudel.dietrich]

The football issue is such a weird story. I had no idea teams used two different sets of playing balls. No other sport does that that I know of.
That should be the first thing that should be changed. One set of footballs for both teams.


I also had no idea that a QB had that much influence over game day equipment.
The NFL is so anal about every other thing that a player wears from the color of their shoes to the brand of their headphones, it strikes me as insane that they allow a QB to select the football he wants to use.


I am not a fan of any team and I don't even really care about the sport too much.
But I see this as a non issue. The game was 45-7. Indianapolis was destroyed in every possible way.

However, I think the Brady and Belichick press conferences were really really bad and did nothing to remove suspicion.
And Belichick seemed to toss Brady under the bus and left him twisting in the wind during the his press conference.
Also, you would think that a professional sports team would have a PR team advising them on issues like this. Instead the Patriots had terrible press conferences that did nothing to remove any doubt.

All Brady had to say was, I am 37 years old and I have been to 5 Super Bowls. This is the first time I have been accused of cheating. I like my footballs to be the minimum air pressure possible and for this game the equipment team might of under inflated them. Why would I suddenly start doing this now at this point in my career?

There, done.
Instead he flailed like a beached whale for 20 minutes.


I also find it incredibly odd that the NFL with all of it's money and power has not sent anyone to NE to investigate this.
Brady said in his press conference that no one from the league office has questioned him yet.
That is utterly baffling.

[Déjà Bru]

My antipathy for Belichick and company now outweighs my distaste for Richard Sherman. I am officially switching my allegiance from the Patriots to the Seahawks (as much as I can muster any enthusiasm for either team but doing so adds a bit of interest in the game). Go Seattle!

[RchW]

Originally Posted by old fart

Bru thanks for the insight. I don't think there will be a problem in the super bowl. Something tells me the Seahawks will have Brady's balls checked carefully.

What I think is the Pats should be penalized. Like no post season for two years.

Aren't we glad that punishing people you don't like is not yet allowed. I can see that changing as we move into an age of believing the loudest and stupidist voice.

[Déjà Bru]

Originally Posted by RchW

Aren't we glad that punishing people you don't like is not yet allowed. I can see that changing as we move into an age of believing the loudest and stupidist voice.

Cheating should be penalized. Else, if I am any gauge, interest falls down to nothing and the game is meaningless.

[RchW]

Originally Posted by Déjà Bru

Cheating should be penalized. Else, if I am any gauge, interest falls down to nothing and the game is meaningless.

I see no proof of cheating. Do you have something other than the inane chatter we've had this week.

This is on the scale of "the man in white" who was supposedly giving the Blue Jays pitch locations from 390 ft away a few seasons ago. As it was back then the media is embarrassing itself again and people are lapping it up like a reality show.

[Splitter24]

Originally Posted by rudel.dietrich

I also find it incredibly odd that the NFL with all of it's money and power has not sent anyone to NE to investigate this.
Brady said in his press conference that no one from the league office has questioned him yet.
That is utterly baffling.

Actually, the league has had a team of investigators in New England since Monday. But as of the time of Brady's press conference they hadn't interviewed him. That part is really weird. The official NFL update released yesterday said that they had interviewed 40 people. Maybe between Brady's press conference and that release they did interview him. But you would think if he'd be one of the first five or so people you'd talk to.

As far as his actual press conference, he was mostly out of his element due to the nature of the questions thrown his way. As glossy of an image that he has, he's never done well in press conferences that weren't specifically straight-up related to the game he just played. He was clearly getting a little bit flustered (and rightly so) due to the nature of the questioning by the press. There's only so many ways to ask someone "did you cheat?" Every reporter seemed to be asking him the same question, as if he was going to give them a different answer. Some of the questions were just straight up antagonistic (such as "Don't you feel you owe the public an apology after what has happened?").

[rudel.dietrich]

I think a very simple solution would be that both teams use the same football and they are checked 15 minutes prior to kick off.

That would have solved this entire issue whether there is an actual issue or not.

No other sport makes both teams use separate playing devices.
Or if there is, I do not know about it.


This is sad in that it is overshadowing what I think is the best possible matchup of teams. I don't get excited about the Superbowl often. But these are the best two teams in the league playing one another and instead we are talking about a very odd potential scandal.

It is also laughable that people seem to care more about this and less about a player knocking out his wife in an elevator and the commissioner of the league claiming they had no knowledge of the tape.

[rudel.dietrich]

Originally Posted by Splitter24

Actually, the league has had a team of investigators in New England since Monday. But as of the time of Brady's press conference they hadn't interviewed him. That part is really weird. The official NFL update released yesterday said that they had interviewed 40 people. Maybe between Brady's press conference and that release they did interview him. But you would think if he'd be one of the first five or so people you'd talk to.

As far as his actual press conference, he was mostly out of his element due to the nature of the questions thrown his way. As glossy of an image that he has, he's never done well in press conferences that weren't specifically straight-up related to the game he just played. He was clearly getting a little bit flustered (and rightly so) due to the nature of the questioning by the press. There's only so many ways to ask someone "did you cheat?" Every reporter seemed to be asking him the same question, as if he was going to give them a different answer. Some of the questions were just straight up antagonistic (such as "Don't you feel you owe the public an apology after what has happened?").

Thank you
It is hard to get accurate information on this side of the ocean. I did not realize it was under investigation. But I do find it odd that four days later they had not interviewed once of the principal figures involved.


I have also read conflicting reports. I have read that the game balls were inspected 1 hour and 45 minutes before kick off and were found to be okay. Then at half time they were all replaced after they were found to be below standard.
Is that true?

If so, that really takes the impact out of the Colts argument since the game was somewhat close at half time but after the half they it was a complete blowout.

[Splitter24]

Originally Posted by rudel.dietrich

Thank you
It is hard to get accurate information on this side of the ocean. I did not realize it was under investigation. But I do find it odd that four days later they had not interviewed once of the principal figures involved.


I have also read conflicting reports. I have read that the game balls were inspected 1 hour and 45 minutes before kick off and were found to be okay. Then at half time they were all replaced after they were found to be below standard.
Is that true?

If so, that really takes the impact out of the Colts argument since the game was somewhat close at half time but after the half they it was a complete blowout.

The rule says the referee crew inspects each teams' game balls before the game and keep possession of them until 2 minutes before kickoff, after which they give each teams' game balls to the designated person from each team whose job it is to distribute them. I've read that some equipment guys who are present when they submit the balls allegedly claim that the referees don't always measure the balls, that they only measure them if they really feel off (which could be a bunch of garbage, don't know).

I've also heard that the Patriots' balls were removed from play at some point in the first half. Then both teams were using Colts footballs until half time, then the Patriots had their footballs inflated to a legal pressure (or used approved backup footballs in their place. It's not clear at this moment).

And to be fair, no Colts are complaining about the footballs used by the Patriots as a reason why they lost. Quite the opposite, one Colts player has said that the Patriots could have used a bar of soap as a football and the Colts would have still lost.

[Jason Moyer]

The questions asked in the press conferences did absolutely nothing but highlight the absolute inanity of modern sports journalism, imo. "I've had nearly a week to think about what to ask you guys, so here goes: 'Did you cheat?' "

[RchW]

Originally Posted by Jason Moyer

The questions asked in the press conferences did absolutely nothing but highlight the absolute inanity of modern sports journalism, imo. "I've had nearly a week to think about what to ask you guys, so here goes: 'Did you cheat?' "

Agreed. This whole thing has demonstrated that sports media are the bottom of the barrel as far as journalism is concerned. What a bunch of useless idiots.

The NFL also looks like a weekend beer league. The economic giant of the sports world can't define a catch, can't ensure the football is filled properly and are paying some schlub $40M to to run this. I could do this well on $10M easy.