[Karros270]

Originally Posted by holyroller

Not my alias.

disposable heroes or Skipaway?

[Skipaway]

Originally Posted by holyroller

Not my alias.

Whoever created this, I thank you.

[disposableheros]

im me

[Skipaway]

Originally Posted by disposableheros

im me

Thank you then.

[holyroller]

Originally Posted by Karros270

disposable heroes or Skipaway?

Both.

[bagsangels]

heres what i have to say about bonds, ok maybe, just maybe, he might have taken steriods, but if u look at him hes still a big guy, now they also believed that giambi took steriods and look at him now, hes way smaller then last year. he says he lost weight. right....... but anyway, even if bonds did which i think he didnt, it still takes an incredible eye for the ball and natural talent to hit a baseball, and the way he does it is incredible, if he doesnt get a home run he gets a double or sometimes triple, the guy usually ends up with more doubles then singles, and his walks are just crazy, i mean to have as many as he has just shows what an incredible hitter he is, lets face it the guy got walked intentionally with bases loaded, now thats saying something. so lets just give bonds his credit and instead of fussing about him, lets enjoy what we have left to see from him.

[mh2365]

Bonds is a great ballplayer. That's about the only good thing that can be said about him.

[bagsangels]

Originally Posted by mh2365

Bonds is a great ballplayer. That's about the only good thing that can be said about him.

hes like kobe, great player, but off the field/court what a jerk

[Skipaway]

Originally Posted by mh2365

Bonds is a great ballplayer. That's about the only good thing that can be said about him.

http://www.allstarz.org/users/barrybonds/charity.htm

[fantom1979]

Originally Posted by bagsangels

heres what i have to say about bonds, ok maybe, just maybe, he might have taken steriods, but if u look at him hes still a big guy, now they also believed that giambi took steriods and look at him now, hes way smaller then last year. he says he lost weight. right....... but anyway, even if bonds did which i think he didnt, it still takes an incredible eye for the ball and natural talent to hit a baseball, and the way he does it is incredible, if he doesnt get a home run he gets a double or sometimes triple, the guy usually ends up with more doubles then singles, and his walks are just crazy, i mean to have as many as he has just shows what an incredible hitter he is, lets face it the guy got walked intentionally with bases loaded, now thats saying something. so lets just give bonds his credit and instead of fussing about him, lets enjoy what we have left to see from him.

Without taking a stance on whether or not he took steriods, all of his stats would be null and void if he is found guilty of taking them. 55 of his 101 walks this year are IBB. Then you have to subtract all of the unintentional intentional Walks he gets. Once you subtract all of these, how good of an eye for the strike zone does Bonds have? Just subtracting the IBB his OBP is .457 . Still good, but more human. If it is somehow proven that he has been totally clean, then he is just simply amazing.

[holyroller]

Originally Posted by fantom1979

Without taking a stance on whether or not he took steriods, all of his stats would be null and void if he is found guilty of taking them.

Naw, not at all. Steroids don't make chicken salad out of chicken ****.

[fantom1979]

Originally Posted by holyroller

Naw, not at all. Steroids don't make chicken salad out of chicken ****.

No, but they do turn .460 OBP guys into .612 OBP guys. My point is that if he did take steriods, then that turned him from a good power hitter to one of the best hitters of all time, which in turn created the "walk-a-bonds", which in turn caused his OBP to skyrocket .150 points.

[Skipaway]

Originally Posted by fantom1979

Without taking a stance on whether or not he took steriods, all of his stats would be null and void if he is found guilty of taking them. 55 of his 101 walks this year are IBB. Then you have to subtract all of the unintentional intentional Walks he gets. Once you subtract all of these, how good of an eye for the strike zone does Bonds have? Just subtracting the IBB his OBP is .457 . Still good, but more human. If it is somehow proven that he has been totally clean, then he is just simply amazing.

How did you calculate that .457?

By my calculation:

(55+(99-54)+2)/(153+(99-54)+2+0)= .510

OBP single season leader board:

1. Barry Bonds .5817 2002 L
2. Ted Williams+ .5528 1941 L
3. John McGraw+ .5475 1899 L
4. Babe Ruth+ .5445 1923 L
5. Babe Ruth+ .5319 1920 L
6. Barry Bonds .5291 2003 L
7. Ted Williams+ .5256 1957 L
8. Billy Hamilton+ .5228 1894 L
9. Babe Ruth+ .5156 1926 L
10. Barry Bonds .5151 2001 L

[Skipaway]

And without all the IBB, his OPS would be 1.294.

Single season leader board:

Rank Player OPS Year Bats
1. Barry Bonds 1.3807 2002 L
2. Babe Ruth+ 1.3791 1920 L
3. Barry Bonds 1.3785 2001 L
4. Babe Ruth+ 1.3586 1921 L
5. Babe Ruth+ 1.3089 1923 L
6. Ted Williams+ 1.2874 1941 L
7. Barry Bonds 1.2778 2003 L
8. Babe Ruth+ 1.2582 1927 L
9. Ted Williams+ 1.2566 1957 L
10. Babe Ruth+ 1.2530 1926 L

[dougaiton]

Originally Posted by fantom1979

Without taking a stance on whether or not he took steriods, all of his stats would be null and void if he is found guilty of taking them.

Rather, they'd then be subject to readjustment. Only after you'd adjusted for the pitcher's steroid use and amphetameanes. Then readjusted the league average for the number using. Then came to some conclusion about it.

I believe Brett Favre's achievements to be null and void becuase he was loaded up on pain killers. Funny how that one get's no airtime?

[fantom1979]

Originally Posted by Skipaway

How did you calculate that .457?

By my calculation:

(55+(99-54)+2)/(153+(99-54)+2+0)= .510

OBP single season leader board:

1. Barry Bonds .5817 2002 L
2. Ted Williams+ .5528 1941 L
3. John McGraw+ .5475 1899 L
4. Babe Ruth+ .5445 1923 L
5. Babe Ruth+ .5319 1920 L
6. Barry Bonds .5291 2003 L
7. Ted Williams+ .5256 1957 L
8. Billy Hamilton+ .5228 1894 L
9. Babe Ruth+ .5156 1926 L
10. Barry Bonds .5151 2001 L

New Math

I now have

(55+(101-55)+2)/(155+(101-55)+2+0)= .507

screwed up somewhere. This .507 includes every non intentional walk, including the walks where the pitcher just throws 4 outside with no intent of throwing a strike. Would he get this walks if he didnt have the godlike seasons he has had the last 4 years? My believe that I am stating my points correctly, but if not let me clearify:

1. Bonds records should be thrown out if he used steroids. He would not have nearly as many walks if he did not have those steroid helped seasons.

2. Bonds OBP has more to do with personal (and deserved) respect then it does with his actual ability to lay off pitches.

3. If Bonds is clear of any steroid use, then all of his walks and other stats are well deserved and he will go down as one of the best players in the last 70 years, if not ever.

[fantom1979]

Originally Posted by dougaiton

I believe Brett Favre's achievements to be null and void becuase he was loaded up on pain killers. Funny how that one get's no airtime?

There are some days that I take pain killers so that I can go to work. I have never taken steroids before going to work to perform better. Steroids are illegal. If I go to work on weed because I think I can concentrate better with them, I run the chance of getting caught and fired.

[fantom1979]

Originally Posted by dougaiton

Rather, they'd then be subject to readjustment. Only after you'd adjusted for the pitcher's steroid use and amphetameanes. Then readjusted the league average for the number using. Then came to some conclusion about it.

Well, if it was up to me (which I dont think it is), anyone caught would get a lifetime suspension and their stats thrown out no matter if it was a batter or pitcher. I think steroids are hurting the game now as bad and the Sox hurt baseball in 1919.

[holyroller]

Originally Posted by fantom1979

Well, if it was up to me (which I dont think it is), anyone caught would get a lifetime suspension and their stats thrown out no matter if it was a batter or pitcher. I think steroids are hurting the game now as bad and the Sox hurt baseball in 1919.

Freal?

I think that considering the percentage of players using them (something like 5% IIRC) I doubt that seriously.

[Jason Moyer]

Originally Posted by holyroller

If he keeps it up I will push him ahead of Ruth in my rankings.

I'm not sure I'd rank him ahead of Ruth yet (even at this pace, he'll have 4 Ruthian seasons on top of a dozen MVP-type seasons while Ruth had...well, a Ruthian-sized pile of Ruthian seasons) but what he's doing is all the more impressive considering a.) he's doing this in a similar run environment to ruth (if someone would like to figure this out be my guest, I'm guessing the huge disparity in park factors would balance out the ever so slight advantage in league R/G) and b.) in a game that's harder to dominate.