When does Gregg Popovich get his due?

[marc]

Originally Posted by El Cid Part II

I have to disagree

It's always someone else, simply because the Media wants someone with flash or controversy

How many times did you hear Stoudamire in this series, and they lost 4-1

Just like real life, if you just do your job and not make noise or quips, some lesser flashier guy gets all the publicity

I agree that Duncan's personality actually hurts his media exposure and thus causes him to be somewhat underrated. I still think he gots a lot of props, particularly from announcers and people that are closer to the game than the media.

I have to say though, that Stoudemire was a bad example. Win or lose Amare outplayed Duncan head-to-head and I don't think this is just a case of something new or someone that is more flashy. Amare is the truth, he may be the most gifted player in the league and that is saying something.

[rudel.dietrich]

Originally Posted by marc

I have to say though, that Stoudemire was a bad example. Win or lose Amare outplayed Duncan head-to-head and I don't think this is just a case of something new or someone that is more flashy. Amare is the truth, he may be the most gifted player in the league and that is saying something.

His defense is awful. Besides shot blocking he has no defensive skills at all. He is not mobile, does not guard the pass or prevent guards from entering the paint. He is a statue on the court and refuses to use his amazing pysical gifts on defense.

[TonyJ]

Originally Posted by Fallschirmjager

He is not mobile

roffle!

Dude, sorry, but that was crazyhorsejohnny level innacuracy. He is one of the most mobile big men ever to play the game. His defense is a question of motivation, not skill.

[rudel.dietrich]

Originally Posted by TonyJ

roffle!

Dude, sorry, but that was crazyhorsejohnny level innacuracy. He is one of the most mobile big men ever to play the game. His defense is a question of motivation, not skill.

On defense he is immobile. Not from not being able to, but from having no idea what the hell to do. If the man he is marking does not have the ball he makes no effort at all to contribute.
I stand by my statement after having watched 6-7 Suns playoff games. He is an offensive force but has Manny Ramiraz defensive value.

[Yyzlin]

He's not so immobile, as he's confused. There's a difference.

[TonyJ]

Originally Posted by Yyzlin

He's not so immobile, as he's confused. There's a difference.

Exactly. He can move, it's just that he doesn't know where to go nor does he have any particular desire to get there.

[rudel.dietrich]

Originally Posted by Yyzlin

He's not so immobile, as he's confused. There's a difference.

This is a serious question. I am always looking to increase my grasp of English. Does immobile mean not moving? Or does it mean the ability to move?

[TonyJ]

Originally Posted by Fallschirmjager

This is a serious question. I am always looking to increase my grasp of English. Does immobile mean not moving? Or does it mean the ability to move?

Either, depending upon the context. Calling a statue immobile means not moving. Calling an athlete immobile means no ability to move.

[rudel.dietrich]

Originally Posted by TonyJ

Either, depending upon the context. Calling a statue immobile means not moving. Calling an athlete immobile means no ability to move.

Ahh ok.
Thanks

Calling him clueless is harsh. But I call em like I see em.

[TonyJ]

Originally Posted by Fallschirmjager

Ahh ok.
Thanks

Calling him clueless is harsh. But I call em like I see em.

Naw, I wouldn't disagree with him being clueless on the defensive end. I think you were maybe a little harsh on him overall though. He's not as good as Duncan, you are definitely right about that, but no matter how poor your defense is, if you are dropping 40+ on Tim Duncan in the playoffs you are a great player.

[rudel.dietrich]

Originally Posted by TonyJ

Naw, I wouldn't disagree with him being clueless on the defensive end. I think you were maybe a little harsh on him overall though. He's not as good as Duncan, you are definitely right about that, but no matter how poor your defense is, if you are dropping 40+ on Tim Duncan in the playoffs you are a great player.

I can agree with that

[Arlie Rahn]

Originally Posted by Fallschirmjager

On defense he is immobile. Not from not being able to, but from having no idea what the hell to do. If the man he is marking does not have the ball he makes no effort at all to contribute.
I stand by my statement after having watched 6-7 Suns playoff games. He is an offensive force but has Manny Ramiraz defensive value.

He's 22 years old. He hasn't applied himself on the defensive end yet. I would say that he's a better defensive player than Duncan was at age 22 and light years ahead of him offensively. When Amare starts to apply himself on the defensive end, he will be the most dominating post player in the NBA. Still, I don't know of too many 22-year olds in the NBA that play great defense.

[marc]

Originally Posted by Arlie Rahn

He's 22 years old. He hasn't applied himself on the defensive end yet. I would say that he's a better defensive player than Duncan was at age 22 and light years ahead of him offensively. When Amare starts to apply himself on the defensive end, he will be the most dominating post player in the NBA. Still, I don't know of too many 22-year olds in the NBA that play great defense.

I totally agree. Also, if Amare is clueless defensively then what the hell was Mr. 1st-team all defense as Amare routinely dropped 35+ and dunked in his face all series?

He's 22 years old, he should be like a junior in college, he needs to learn a few things that can only be learned with EXPERIENCE. He's going to be the best player in the league by the time he's 25, mark it down.

[TonyJ]

Originally Posted by marc

I totally agree. Also, if Amare is clueless defensively then what the hell was Mr. 1st-team all defense as Amare routinely dropped 35+ and dunked in his face all series?

Physically overmatched.

[marc]

Originally Posted by TonyJ

Physically overmatched.

Then I would attribute Duncan's numbers to Amare being mentally overmatched. No teenager comes into the league as a good defensive player, with experience comes defense. Some guys pick up on it and pride themselves on it and some don't care. I'll bet Amare does the former.

[TonyJ]

Originally Posted by marc

Then I would attribute Duncan's numbers to Amare being mentally overmatched. No teenager comes into the league as a good defensive player, with experience comes defense. Some guys pick up on it and pride themselves on it and some don't care. I'll bet Amare does the former.

I wouldn't disagree. My comments about Amare were purely evaluating him where he is right now, which is already one of the best players in the NBA at 22 years old in his third season out of high school. He is going to be all-NBA for many, many seasons and should get much better on the defensive end although I would not expect him to become KG on that end or anything.

[marc]

Originally Posted by TonyJ

I wouldn't disagree. My comments about Amare were purely evaluating him where he is right now, which is already one of the best players in the NBA at 22 years old in his third season out of high school. He is going to be all-NBA for many, many seasons and should get much better on the defensive end although I would not expect him to become KG on that end or anything.

I'm with you and haven't really disagreed with any of your comments. While he may not become KG or Duncan on the defensive end, I think he is the only big man in the league right now that is a better athlete than KG. I usually try to keep my "Waltonesque" comments to a minimum but this guy has about as much potential as any big man that has EVER played the game. If I wanted to win an NBA championship today I'd pick Garnett or Duncan, but if I wanted to win about 5 of them in the next 10 years, I'd pick Amare.

[TonyJ]

You may well be right and it points out yet another example of how good the NBA is right now. I almost feel sorry for people who tuned out of the NBA during the post-Jordan era and haven't come back. With Amare, LeBron, Dwayne Wade and many others there are some fantastic young players out there along with great vets like Duncan, KG, Shaq, Nash, AI, etc. This is seriously the most fun I have had watching basketball since the Laker/Celtic days of the 80s.

[marc]

Originally Posted by TonyJ

You may well be right and it points out yet another example of how good the NBA is right now. I almost feel sorry for people who tuned out of the NBA during the post-Jordan era and haven't come back. With Amare, LeBron, Dwayne Wade and many others there are some fantastic young players out there along with great vets like Duncan, KG, Shaq, Nash, AI, etc. This is seriously the most fun I have had watching basketball since the Laker/Celtic days of the 80s.

Totally agree, I think basketball has come a LONG way the last 5 years. There are as many great players now as ever, unfortunetly free agency has somewhat killed some great rivalries and has prevented the individual rivalries of the 80's (Bird vs. Magic, etc.). Other than the difference in player movement, it is somewhat similar to the 80's as far as great players are concerned. Instead of Dr. J, Bird, Magic, Jordan, Kareem, etc. We have Duncan, Amare, Kobe, Shaq, AI, McGrady. Just some VERY exciting basketball being played in the NBA right now.

[Yyzlin]

Originally Posted by Arlie Rahn

He's 22 years old. He hasn't applied himself on the defensive end yet. I would say that he's a better defensive player than Duncan was at age 22 and light years ahead of him offensively. When Amare starts to apply himself on the defensive end, he will be the most dominating post player in the NBA. Still, I don't know of too many 22-year olds in the NBA that play great defense.

Hmm, I just going to have to say, a huge no. Duncan was 2nd All-Defense out of college, and at 22, was 1st team All-Defense and has been a fixture since.