checking strategies

[the senator]

I have been playing by letting the computer control both boxers strategies. The manual says that the purest way to sim is to not do strategies. I would like to hear from the experienced players here as to how they handle this. I would like the game to be somewhat random as to upsets. I you don't use stragetey does this make the game to predictable?

[hamed]

That's interesting & surprising. I've always used strategies & been pleased with the results. The strats used by the computer seemed to make sense most of the time in my bouts.

[mh2365]

The only one the computer doesn't seem to use is the protect the cut one.

[bigMatt]

Originally Posted by hamed

That's interesting & surprising. I've always used strategies & been pleased with the results. The strats used by the computer seemed to make sense most of the time in my bouts.

I'd disagree a little on this, as I've noticed a lot of "taking the round off" in the last round when a fighter is obviously in need of a knockout to win. I think it depends on who is in his corner. If you have decent corner guys (like defaulting to some of the better trainers) you will have a much more consistent, better quality result.

I'd also agree with Mike's comments that you gotta reach in and protect a guy when he's cut. Especially in a close bout with a conservative ref, you may be disappointed by early stoppages when a guy is safely ahead. I know I've had that several times, and it is nothing but aggravating when it happens.

[hamed]

^ I haven't noticed too many guys taking the last round off when they needed a KO to win. Even if that does happen, one reason might be the fighter thinks he's winning the fight & doesn't need a KO. How many fighters in post fight interviews were shocked they lost a decision? Or maybe by the last round, the guy behind is so tired he just hopes to go the distance & knows he's not capaable of KOing the other guy so he hopes for the best in a decision & doesn't want to get KOed himself.

Maybe I just know how to sim my bouts better than you

Just kidding

[bigMatt]

Originally Posted by hamed

Maybe I just know how to sim my bouts better than you

Just kidding

Now this could be entirely true! Maybe you are a little more instructive from your seat in the crowd!

Then again, you may not be assigning a generic team to the respective corners?

Originally Posted by hamed

I haven't noticed too many guys taking the last round off when they needed a KO to win. Even if that does happen, one reason might be the fighter thinks he's winning the fight & doesn't need a KO. How many fighters in post fight interviews were shocked they lost a decision? Or maybe by the last round, the guy behind is so tired he just hopes to go the distance & knows he's not capaable of KOing the other guy so he hopes for the best in a decision & doesn't want to get KOed himself.

Good point, except a decent corner team should at least instruct the bum that he is getting smoked! I've been shocked how many times it happens in a lopsided affair. I finally got to the point where I assign a random corner team, but never allow the generic guys a turn.

[CONN CHRIS]

I notice fighters inexplicably taking rounds off quite frequently. It appears at times to almost be a default setting.

[hamed]

bigMatt: I keep random corners for the unknown fighters but most of the "name" fighters have good/known trainers.

[wildhawke11]

Originally Posted by the senator

I have been playing by letting the computer control both boxers strategies. The manual says that the purest way to sim is to not do strategies. I would like to hear from the experienced players here as to how they handle this. I would like the game to be somewhat random as to upsets. I you don't use stragetey does this make the game to predictable?

Just like the Title Bout board game which i still have under this computer desk. The most realistic results as it says in the board game will be when no strategy card are used. But its more fun and gives a better chance of a major shock or upset when the cards are used, and also at the same time allowed two players to have more input into the game and result. Of course also a good selling point as a bonus might have been, the use of the cards could also influence some who had doubts to take a chance and buy the game. The more mad passionate boxing fan has total realism and the more casual fan has a way to make the game for him more fun.


Basically i feel the same thing followed on with the computer game allowing a little bit more excitement for the player. My own view personally is that i dont think the computer uses the strategies at times very well. I have almost screamed at my computer when it was obvious not to use a certain one in a fight. A Fighter taking a hammering in the fight and feeling lucky to survive against shall we say fearsome punchers such as Mike Tyson, Marciano, Jack Dempsey, George Foreman or any other real heavy puncher is in no way going to go for a KO in a fight facing these men. Even less so of course if he has no big punch himself. His main objective (think of yourself in the ring now) is to finish the fight at least on his feet. In no way if he does not posses a KO punch is he going to play into the puncher hands and trade blow to blow. At worst he will feel proud to have the newspapers say "He at least went the full 15 or so rounds with a great champion" and of course there is always a chance he might just get a points result.

You want more fun use the strategies. I personally feel though that just like the board game that if you want more realistic results. *Yes you will still get shock upsets* play the game without them. My thoughts anyway on this one, but its each to his own as many may disagree with me. The main thing is to enjoy this great little game in your own way.

Do i hear some old guys on here saying " Oh No Wildhawke is back doing his long winded posts again -- Give it a break Danny"

[the senator]

Thank all of you guys for your answers. I think I will allow the computer to control the strategies for the fighters. Hey Wildhawke- I don't think your answer was long winded at all. It was helpful. I had the board game also about twenty years ago. I played it with my son until the cards were about worn out.

[mh2365]

Generally what I will do is let the computer handle it unless a guy is way ahead and bleeding then I will go in and use protect cut late in the fight

[native son]

I’m also n the camp that feels that the computer’s strategy selection leaves a lot to be desired, to put it mildly. And often, it’s just out and out bad. I’ve seen the questionable use of “take a round off” as well as the shaky timing of “go for a knockout” a lot.

The game does such a great job of having all the fighter ratings work together and balance each other to paint an accurate view of a fighter’s abilities, that it’s a shame that the strategy selection doesn’t seem to be nearly as involved. I watch a lot of computer vs. computer bouts, and it irks me a little to see fighters like Foreman or Liston “Fight Outside Defensively” beginning in the 2nd or 3rd round against light punchers. We know both those guys could fight outside, but they rarely did ANYTHING defensively, as their aggression, killer instinct, and punching power would indicate. This isn’t to say that they were without defense, but it came within the framework of an offensive mindset.

I think the strategy system should be revamped to include true fighter tendencies, rather than just their ability to implement a particular strategy. There are other boxing sims that model this rather well, but don’t have nearly the depth of our TBCB2. (So to that end, my search for the perfect boxing sim still continues. I have no less than 5 on my computer right now that each gets different portions of my boxing gaming attention!) Maybe give the fighters 100 points to distribute amongst each strategy (including NO STRATEGY or NORMAL) which would represent the rough percentage of time that the fighter employs that strategy under normal circumstances. These percentages could then be modified up or down by the game engine during the bout for each strategy, depending on numerous fight factors such as: How many rounds left; opponent’s punching power, chin (both fighters); opponent’s accuracy; aggression (both); boxing style (both); defense (both); fatigue (both); current condition (both); how much damage was taken and dished out in the previous round; is the boxer ahead or behind; and just whether or not a chosen strategy seems to be working or failing against this particular opponent. The sim should use the total points scored in the round by both fighters, as well as the ringside scoring (which is hit or miss) to roughly determine “behind the scenes” how the fight is going.

A Marciano may fight his “normal” style against a Jack Dempsey all things considered, but then try to “fight inside” more against a slick-boxing Larry Holmes to try to break him down for later rounds … going for the Knockout if he had Holmes down the prior round, or if he thought he was trailing big in the fight with 3 or 4 rounds left to go. Holmes may fight that same fight “outside defensively” early, and then switch to “outside offensively” if he’s been effective and Marciano begins to tire. By the same token, Holmes would probably fight as normal or no strategy against a Jimmy Young, unless he tried to get inside to bust him up; not fearing Young’s punching power and knowing by his aggression rating that Young isn’t very likely to be coming after him. I think tendencies implemented as such would add a ton to what is already a very, very fine sim.

I mean, other finer factors would hopefully eventually be coded in too. I’d love for the fighter’s intelligence and cornerman’s strategy rating play a part in modifying strategy selection percentages up and down. For example have a chance that one or more of an opponent’s ratings has been either underestimated or overestimated, and the strategy selection is according to this wrong perception. Not realizing that Ernie Shavers hit as hard as he did, or thinking that he was out of gas when he really wasn’t could be a bad mistake … as could giving Ezzard Charles too much respect by not going after him and letting him pick you apart all fight long. The margin of error and “fuzz” for some of these things should be reduced as the fight goes on, because it shouldn’t take a fighter 7 rounds to figure out that what he thought was a HP of 8 going into a fight, turned out to be an HP of 12 once he got hit with a few good shots. That’s where fighter intelligence and corner savvy come into play. This could also make the statistic of how many times they’ve fought against each other in our universe meaningful, because the more you fight someone, the less that there is to “guess” at. They become a known commodity.

Hopefully, something similar works its way into the much anticipated “patch,” but I’d at least hope that it’s incorporated for future versions (which I’m compelled to buy upon release with few to no questions asked). Now I’ll see if any of this brings a rare Trunzo-sighting to this thread.

Now, how’s that for “long-winded” Wildhawke?

[javier_83]

i always lets, the computer put the strategy, because, thats thwee way can be a total unexpected, fight

[native son]

Writing all of the above prompted me to dive back into the game for a few hours yesterday, and now I realize that I'm getting waaaaaaay more enjoyment watching fights with the strategies OFF!

I don't know why it never occurred to me that this might be a better way for me to go, considering my frustration with the computer selected strategy. Guess I'm a bit "thick" sometimes!

[wildhawke11]

Originally Posted by native son

Writing all of the above prompted me to dive back into the game for a few hours yesterday, and now I realize that I'm getting waaaaaaay more enjoyment watching fights with the strategies OFF!

I don't know why it never occurred to me that this might be a better way for me to go, considering my frustration with the computer selected strategy. Guess I'm a bit "thick" sometimes!

Thats how i am inclined to play the game. I dont even use the training part of the game. By the time you use conditioning, added to the training, plus using the strategies. Someone like Roberto Duran could in fact look nothing like the great fighter he was in his prime years at lightweight. But as i said before, its each to his own. I Agree 100%, when the next version of this game comes out the strategy part of the game badly needs a make over in my humble opinion. But of course others here may feel different.