What is fighting outside defensively

Nostradamus · 06-26-2007, 06:43 PM

What exactly is that?

swampdragon · 06-26-2007, 07:20 PM

Running away on a bicycle with a few jabs thrown in.

Lee · 06-26-2007, 07:28 PM

Think Marlon Starling

Mr Big · 06-27-2007, 03:08 AM

This tactic is used many times when a boxer has a big lead late in a fight. It can be used to offset the "go for KO" strategy that his opponent might be employing when they are too far behind on the scorecards to win by decision. It is just a step above "cover up" mode, and emphasizes caution, rather than offense.

It can also be used by a fighter to "clear his head" after taking a beating in the previous round, focusing on survival until his circumstances become more favorable for an offensive attack. When utilized properly, it can be a very useful strategy, either way.

btown32 · 06-27-2007, 03:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lee

Think Marlon Starling

More like: think Floyd Mayweather Jr, Cory Spinks. Especially Spinks.

Mr Big · 06-27-2007, 03:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by btown32

More like: think Floyd Mayweather Jr, Cory Spinks. Especially Spinks.

When fighters like these employ this strategy over the course of the entire fight, it often doesn't make for a "crowd pleasing" style. What's even worse is when you get two guys running away from each other all night. I realize that defense and counterpunching can be a very effective fighting style, as seen by your fine examples of Mayweather and Spinks. However, I prefer a guy like Hatton who will get in the trenches and make things happen. Makes for a much more entertaining fight IMO.

vistaman44 · 06-27-2007, 04:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by swampdragon

Running away on a bicycle with a few jabs thrown in.

... example of this on ESPN Classic last night when they re-ran the Hector Camacho WBO title defense against Tony Baltazar. Macho dominated -- he backpeddaled and stuck jabs while running the whole fight, and The Tiger couldn't get near him without being tied up. The ref kept warning Camacho for holding, but never did penalize him.
Color commentator Sugar Ray Leonard kept praising Camacho for his "technically beautiful" fight.

Mr Big · 06-27-2007, 12:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vistaman44

... example of this on ESPN Classic last night when they re-ran the Hector Camacho WBO title defense against Tony Baltazar. Macho dominated -- he backpeddaled and stuck jabs while running the whole fight, and The Tiger couldn't get near him without being tied up. The ref kept warning Camacho for holding, but never did penalize him.
Color commentator Sugar Ray Leonard kept praising Camacho for his "technically beautiful" fight.

Little wonder Sugar Ray enjoyed that type of fight. Wasn't that pretty much what he did against Hagler in '87?

hamed · 06-27-2007, 01:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr Big

Little wonder Sugar Ray enjoyed that type of fight. Wasn't that pretty much what he did against Hagler in '87?

Ray boxed & moved that fight & flurried at the right times. Hagler basically gave away the first 3 rounds of that fight & I recall the announcers saying Hagler needs to step it up.

In the 9th, it looked like Hagler had Ray in trouble in the corner but Ray fired off some nice combos in response. People said they were pitty pat punches but how can anyone tell when those punches were hitting an iron chin like Hagler had? A man who took the best shots of both Hearns & Mugabi.

vistaman44 · 06-27-2007, 02:05 PM

... was the extreme that ring generalship can be taken to. I actually enjoy the guys who are active when they stick and move to wear the other guy down before they attack and try to end it. Some of my favorites are guys like Donald Curry, Pernell Whitaker, Muhammad Ali, Oscar De La Hoya, Jermain Taylor, Michael Carbajal, Sugar Ray Robinson, etc. -- true technicians. I liked Sugar Ray Leonard most of the time, and even Camacho when he was actually being Macho and not running. If it weren't for the "tude," I'd probably like Pretty Boy Floyd.

Don't get me wrong, though. I also appreciate brawlers and bangers like Ricky Hatton, Rocky Marciano, George Foreman, Boom Boom Mancini and many others who win with power and aggression.

Runners, foulers and holders are my pet peeves as far as boxing styles.

hamed · 06-27-2007, 02:52 PM

^ well said vista!

Wasn't it Andre Dirrell who just recently really played it safe in his fight the other week?

mh2365 · 06-27-2007, 03:31 PM

Malinaggi was a solid example of stick and move .. not run

swampdragon · 06-27-2007, 03:42 PM

Wouldn't you say stick and move would be fighting outside offensively? That's how I've pictured it, anyway.

Mr Big · 06-28-2007, 01:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by swampdragon

Wouldn't you say stick and move would be fighting outside offensively? That's how I've pictured it, anyway.

I would probably see it more that way. Fighting outside defensively is a "safety first" measure, with minimal focus on offense. I still like sluggers who take the fight to their opponent. At his best, Vitali Klitschko was fun to watch. He managed to be effectively aggressive (34 KOs in 35 wins), yet, despite his attacking style, never visited the canvas. Something to be said for that.

rdklein · 06-28-2007, 05:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr Big

At his best, Vitali Klitschko was fun to watch. He managed to be effectively aggressive (34 KOs in 35 wins), yet, despite his attacking style, never visited the canvas. Something to be said for that.

The first few times I watched him fight, I considered his boxing style "just plain awkward". Then after he became champ, I called his style "unique".

I like that term for his style now, though... "effectively aggressive".

He was definitely fun to watch.

vistaman44 · 06-28-2007, 08:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by swampdragon

Wouldn't you say stick and move would be fighting outside offensively? That's how I've pictured it, anyway.

... the fighter is moving in, then getting out. If you're backpeddaling, I can't really construe that as offensive fighting.

06-26-2007, 06:43 PM	#1 (permalink)
Nostradamus Minors (Single A) Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 69	What is fighting outside defensively What exactly is that?

06-26-2007, 07:20 PM	#2 (permalink)
swampdragon All Star Starter Join Date: May 2002 Location: The Lonely Mountain Posts: 1,732	Running away on a bicycle with a few jabs thrown in. __________________ "The only way to oblige men to speak well of us is to act well." -- Voltaire

06-26-2007, 07:28 PM	#3 (permalink)
Lee Global Moderator Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Phoenix Az Posts: 1,853	Think Marlon Starling __________________ Chilton Roughnecks My UTBA Franchise

06-27-2007, 03:08 AM	#4 (permalink)
Mr Big All Star Starter Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 1,235	This tactic is used many times when a boxer has a big lead late in a fight. It can be used to offset the "go for KO" strategy that his opponent might be employing when they are too far behind on the scorecards to win by decision. It is just a step above "cover up" mode, and emphasizes caution, rather than offense. It can also be used by a fighter to "clear his head" after taking a beating in the previous round, focusing on survival until his circumstances become more favorable for an offensive attack. When utilized properly, it can be a very useful strategy, either way. __________________ The M.O.B. Isaiah 54:17

06-27-2007, 02:05 PM	#10 (permalink)
vistaman44 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Auxvasse, Mo. Posts: 3,143	The Camacho-Baltazar ... ... was the extreme that ring generalship can be taken to. I actually enjoy the guys who are active when they stick and move to wear the other guy down before they attack and try to end it. Some of my favorites are guys like Donald Curry, Pernell Whitaker, Muhammad Ali, Oscar De La Hoya, Jermain Taylor, Michael Carbajal, Sugar Ray Robinson, etc. -- true technicians. I liked Sugar Ray Leonard most of the time, and even Camacho when he was actually being Macho and not running. If it weren't for the "tude," I'd probably like Pretty Boy Floyd. Don't get me wrong, though. I also appreciate brawlers and bangers like Ricky Hatton, Rocky Marciano, George Foreman, Boom Boom Mancini and many others who win with power and aggression. Runners, foulers and holders are my pet peeves as far as boxing styles. __________________ ---Mark (vistaman44) "What lies behind us and what lies before us are small matters, compared to what lies within us." — Ralph Waldo Emerson, American essayist, philosopher and poet (1803-1882) ----------------------------------- Currently operating 1980s JM-HW, 1940s, African, 1980s LW and women's boxing universes Last edited by vistaman44 : 06-27-2007 at 02:09 PM.

06-27-2007, 02:52 PM	#11 (permalink)
hamed Hall Of Famer Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 2,073	^ well said vista! Wasn't it Andre Dirrell who just recently really played it safe in his fight the other week?

06-27-2007, 03:31 PM	#12 (permalink)
mh2365 Banned Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: louisville Posts: 14,963 Warnings: 2	Malinaggi was a solid example of stick and move .. not run

06-27-2007, 03:42 PM	#13 (permalink)
swampdragon All Star Starter Join Date: May 2002 Location: The Lonely Mountain Posts: 1,732	Wouldn't you say stick and move would be fighting outside offensively? That's how I've pictured it, anyway. __________________ "The only way to oblige men to speak well of us is to act well." -- Voltaire

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