Marciano - Ali Superfight on DVD

[Jim_Kidd]

A few weeks ago I bought the Marciano vs Ali Superfight on DVD. I originally saw it years ago... but they did a great, great job on the new DVD. You can buy it online for around $10 to $12 at amazon.com.

It's a must if you like boxing history. The fight itself, interviews, bios, etc. are worth the price. But the bonus disc... well, that's something else in and of itself. The bonus disc includes the entire radio broadcast of each of the Heavyweight matchups as they were originally broadcast back in 1970.

It's like listening to the old fights back in the pre-TV era. The broadcasts include interviews with Nat Fleischer, Joe Louis, Jack Dempsey, Jess Willard, Angelo Dundee, Jersey Joe Walcott and loads of others.

It's like going back in time and it gives boxing fans a real appreciation of boxing history not to mention the existence of what we now have in the form of TBCB.

This event was the pre-cursor of computer simulations, and it includes interviews with Tracey Callis, Mike DeLisa and others.

I ate dinner tonight listening to Jack Dempsey vs. Jim Corbett in the first round of the tournament. Each of the Heavyweight match-ups include the fight buildups, the fight itself, and what people thought about it afterward.

Add this double-DVD collection to your library. You'll love it!

One of the things on the DVD was a little known fact about John L. Sullivan. In his career, he is created with 149 knockdowns and was only knocked down twice himself - including his last fight - way past his prime against Jim Corbett. He must have had some chin considering he fought in during the age of bareknuckle sluggers.

[Mad Bomber]

Jim, this a great find, and the next time i'm downtown I will go to the nearest
bookstore, and order it. I remember this from when I was a kid, and have seen
it a few times previously, but not for years. Thanks for the heads up.


Greg

[Jim_Kidd]

It's great to hear guys like Jess Willard, Joe Louis, Rocky Marciano and Jim Braddock talking dream fights and how they'd fight one another.

[bear]

Mike DeLisa of Cyber boxing Zone note, is the guy responsible for getting this dvd together. The films of the fight were shown once and all prints were collected and destroyed except for the copy given to the library of congress. Mike did the work of making it available. The coolest part for me is the reproduction of the radio tournament. I listened to it religously when it was aired initially with my dad. Some good memories for me there.

Bear

[Mr Big]

Originally Posted by Jim_Kidd

One of the things on the DVD was a little known fact about John L. Sullivan. In his career, he is created with 149 knockdowns and was only knocked down twice himself - including his last fight - way past his prime against Jim Corbett. He must have had some chin considering he fought in during the age of bareknuckle sluggers.

That first knockdown occured against Charley Mitchell in round one on May 14, 1883. Sullivan roared back to stop the previously undefeated Mitchell in round 3. One account that I read years ago said that the fight was stopped, "just short of murder." Apparently, John L. didn't appreciate being off his feet.

Considering the only other time "The Boston Strongboy" visited the canvas was in the Corbett fight, I believe it is safe to say that he had one of the better chins in heavyweight history. In my opinion, his KD rating should be no higher than a "1". Recovery could be debated, since he got up readily in his pre-prime fight vs. Mitchell, and was counted out post-prime against Corbett.

Good, solid chin. And, the 149-2 knockdown ratio is phenomenal, to say the least. One of the true all-time greats.

[Mr Big]

I was checking out John L. Sullivan's page on boxrec. and noticed that his 1882 World Bareknuckle Heavyweight Title fight with Paddy Ryan, and his 75 round, 1889 battle for the American Heavyweight Championship vs Jake Kilrain have been omitted. The only fights with Ryan that it lists are in 1885 and 1886, in which he stopped Paddy in rounds 1 and 3, respectively.

In fact, boxrec never lists "The Boston Strongboy" as fighting more than 6 rounds in any given fight, previous to Corbett. I realize that, prior to the Marquis of Queensbury rules, rounds were counted differently, perhaps after a knockdown, as is evidenced by the 136 minute elapsed time of the aforementioned contest with Kilrain. But, I think that all fights, even those fought under London Prize Ring rules, should be included.

Another couple of interesting facts: Boxrec credits John L. with 24 knockdowns in winning a 4 round decision against Tug Wilson at Madison Square Garden on July 17, 1882. Apparently, Mr. Wilson chose this strategy to keep from being knocked out.

Also, while many boxing historians consider the September 7, 1892 bout with Corbett as the first World Heavyweight Title fight held under the aforementioned Marquis of Queensbury rules, looks like Sullivan's 6 round decision over Dominick McCaffrey in 1885 was also billed as such.

Just some interesting tidbits.

[Jim_Kidd]

Originally Posted by Mr Big

That first knockdown occured against Charley Mitchell in round one on May 14, 1883. Sullivan roared back to stop the previously undefeated Mitchell in round 3. One account that I read years ago said that the fight was stopped, "just short of murder." Apparently, John L. didn't appreciate being off his feet.

Considering the only other time "The Boston Strongboy" visited the canvas was in the Corbett fight, I believe it is safe to say that he had one of the better chins in heavyweight history. In my opinion, his KD rating should be no higher than a "1". Recovery could be debated, since he got up readily in his pre-prime fight vs. Mitchell, and was counted out post-prime against Corbett.

Good, solid chin. And, the 149-2 knockdown ratio is phenomenal, to say the least. One of the true all-time greats.

Yeah, I agree, John L's chin should definitely be a "1". To have stayed on his feet without visiting the floor during the bareknuckle era... that was quite a feat.

Also, it took until the end of his fight with Corbett, when his less than perfect conditioning caught up with him, that he finally hit the floor.

So basically, you'd have to say that John L. Sullivan had great conditioning in his prime... a great chin... and a very solid punch (a 9 or 10). He just couldn't catch the stick and move style of Corbett long enough to do damage.

But even so, it took Corbett dishing out 21 rounds of punishment - here and there to soften him up for the kill. Pretty impressive.

Today, John L. Sullivan would be a Cruiserweight. And whether or not he could develop the skills to cope with boxer/movers, he had the personality and ethnic background (Irish) to make a fortune. Especially if he fought in the 1980's!

[Mr Big]

Being of Irish descent, I have always been a Sullivan fan. I would agree with you about placing him at cruiser. His best fighting weight was around 195 lbs. although it wasn't uncommon for him to come in around 205. He was 212 lbs. and out of shape when he was KOd by Corbett.

Big John liked a good scrap, and definitely excelled against fellow sluggers who would stand toe-to-toe and swap licks with him. I believe that pure boxers like Gentleman Jim would have given him trouble, regardless of the era in which he fought; hence the disparity in his control factors vs each. I also think that his TBCB chin rating needs to be improved, although that might mean adjusting other ratings in order to accurately simulate his performances.

A prime match-up vs the likes of fellow Irishmen Jerry Quarry or Gerry Cooney would have been one for the ages. Bombs away!