Bad Management?

Cap · 12-02-2007, 09:25 AM

Ok. You've got a young (23) heavyweight who is 11-0 against minor league competition. For your next bout do you match him against Roland LaStarza who is 24-0 or Carmine Vingo who is 9-1? Even if you suspect that LaStarza is not a big banger, who do you pick?

Cap

mh2365 · 12-02-2007, 09:33 AM

Depends on if you feel he is ready to make a step up. If you don't go with Vingo.

Cap · 12-02-2007, 12:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mh2365

Depends on if you feel he is ready to make a step up. If you don't go with Vingo.

I should mention that LaStarza's previous three fights ended inside the distance. Your heavyweight is really 14-0 (I misread that)with 4 kayos. The best guy you've fought was James Patrick Connolly who had recorded 4 wins and 3 losses. The match will be a 6-rd undercard filler in Yankee Stadium, LaStarza's hometown. Your guy has been winning, but he's obviously no Dempsey or Louis. Do you take it, figuring he'll lose but maybe learn something and get New York exposure, or hold out for somebody else coming up like Vingo that you think your guy might be able to beat to extend your unbeaten streak and still pick up some things from the fight?

Cap

P.S. This is real world, not in my AU.

mh2365 · 12-02-2007, 01:03 PM

I probably stay away from LaStarza at this point.

a87star · 12-02-2007, 02:03 PM

I'd take the fight with Vingo. LaStarza would get the benefit of the doubt from the judges against your guy if the fight was very close.

mh2365 · 12-02-2007, 02:11 PM

Of course IRL your guy took the Lastarza fight, lost, and went 3-15 the rest of his career so in hindsight ...definitely take the Vingo fight LOL

meade95 · 12-02-2007, 03:03 PM

Not ready for Roland LaStarza yet........No upside to facing him at this point (IMO). Plus you'd be fighting in his hometown......You're just setting your fighter up to fail....

I'd take one or two more fights.....a notch above where you have been (if you can find a guy that falls in there). Then I'd move toward the LaStarza fight....

David Ball · 12-02-2007, 05:07 PM

Well, to play devil's advocate...at least with the benefit of hindsight we can see we have a barely .500 level boxer who has a chance to fight on the top of the undercard in a Yankee Stadium card featuring Ike Williams defending his lightweight championship, plus Ray Robinson and Kid Gavilan.

This wouldn't be a pot of gold, but it does sound like a very nice payday. Maybe, rather than Mogard being pushed too fast, this is a case of shrewd management extracting the maximum value out of a minor talent, then cashing in at the right moment. If the manager turns this chance down, who knows if it will ever come again? When Mogard did fight Vingo, he lost -- in fact, he lost nine straight -- and that certainly didn't improve his marketability.

It would be interesting to know how much a fighter got paid for a fight like this in 1948.

Cap · 12-02-2007, 08:03 PM

If I had been Don Mogard's manager, I would've tried him with someone a notch or two above the talent he'd been fighting and build up to a guy like LaStarza. Could be Mogard's manager wasn't really well connected and just couldn't handle him any better. As for Vingo, Mogard had lost twice to LaStarza when that fight came up. Could be Vingo's people wouldn't have taken it if Mogard was still unbeaten. Looks like Mogard was managed about as well as Mountain Rivera. Even with Vingo you're fighting in his backyard in New York. I think a lot of smalltown guys were mishandled and still are. James J. Parker was another. Imagine fighting Bucceroni who's 27-0 with 21 KOs when you are 9-1-2.

Cap

12-02-2007, 09:25 AM	#1 (permalink)
Cap Hall Of Famer Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Large Province in God's Country Posts: 4,004	Bad Management? Ok. You've got a young (23) heavyweight who is 11-0 against minor league competition. For your next bout do you match him against Roland LaStarza who is 24-0 or Carmine Vingo who is 9-1? Even if you suspect that LaStarza is not a big banger, who do you pick? Cap __________________ "...There were Giants in Those Days.."

12-02-2007, 08:03 PM	#9 (permalink)
Cap Hall Of Famer Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Large Province in God's Country Posts: 4,004	If I had been Don Mogard's manager, I would've tried him with someone a notch or two above the talent he'd been fighting and build up to a guy like LaStarza. Could be Mogard's manager wasn't really well connected and just couldn't handle him any better. As for Vingo, Mogard had lost twice to LaStarza when that fight came up. Could be Vingo's people wouldn't have taken it if Mogard was still unbeaten. Looks like Mogard was managed about as well as Mountain Rivera. Even with Vingo you're fighting in his backyard in New York. I think a lot of smalltown guys were mishandled and still are. James J. Parker was another. Imagine fighting Bucceroni who's 27-0 with 21 KOs when you are 9-1-2. Cap __________________ "...There were Giants in Those Days.." Last edited by Cap : 12-02-2007 at 08:12 PM.

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12-02-2007, 09:33 AM	#2 (permalink)
mh2365 Banned Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: louisville Posts: 14,963 Warnings: 2	Depends on if you feel he is ready to make a step up. If you don't go with Vingo.

12-02-2007, 01:03 PM	#4 (permalink)
mh2365 Banned Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: louisville Posts: 14,963 Warnings: 2	I probably stay away from LaStarza at this point.

12-02-2007, 02:03 PM	#5 (permalink)
a87star Hall Of Famer Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Staten Island, NY Posts: 4,023	I'd take the fight with Vingo. LaStarza would get the benefit of the doubt from the judges against your guy if the fight was very close.

12-02-2007, 02:11 PM	#6 (permalink)
mh2365 Banned Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: louisville Posts: 14,963 Warnings: 2	Of course IRL your guy took the Lastarza fight, lost, and went 3-15 the rest of his career so in hindsight ...definitely take the Vingo fight LOL

12-02-2007, 03:03 PM	#7 (permalink)
meade95 All Star Starter Join Date: Jul 2003 Posts: 1,795	Not ready for Roland LaStarza yet........No upside to facing him at this point (IMO). Plus you'd be fighting in his hometown......You're just setting your fighter up to fail.... I'd take one or two more fights.....a notch above where you have been (if you can find a guy that falls in there). Then I'd move toward the LaStarza fight....

12-02-2007, 05:07 PM	#8 (permalink)
David Ball Minors (Single A) Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 65	Well, to play devil's advocate...at least with the benefit of hindsight we can see we have a barely .500 level boxer who has a chance to fight on the top of the undercard in a Yankee Stadium card featuring Ike Williams defending his lightweight championship, plus Ray Robinson and Kid Gavilan. This wouldn't be a pot of gold, but it does sound like a very nice payday. Maybe, rather than Mogard being pushed too fast, this is a case of shrewd management extracting the maximum value out of a minor talent, then cashing in at the right moment. If the manager turns this chance down, who knows if it will ever come again? When Mogard did fight Vingo, he lost -- in fact, he lost nine straight -- and that certainly didn't improve his marketability. It would be interesting to know how much a fighter got paid for a fight like this in 1948.