UFC versus Boxing: Good argument from us

[VaughanDesign]

Boxing Star Power: The Sweet Science's Advantage over Mixed Martial Arts

14.12.07 - By Rob Tierney: www.BrickCityBoxing.com. The UFC President's propaganda was more of the same this past year. Boxing is dead, public support has disintegrated, the trend of the times is mixed martial arts; he attempted to portray. In 2007, Dana White continued to lobby the naysayers and the anti-boxing media that the tradition of Boxing was on the verge of buckling for his own monetary gain.

Still, the sport survived yet another year with record breaking pay per view audiences and more star power and solid performances than ever before. In fact, it is the sports' impeccable ability to produce such stars that will continue to separate itself from all forms of competition in the upcoming year. Behold what Boxing has in store for 2008.

Drool must have been dripping off the lips of Dana White this past May. When Oscar De La Hoya and Floyd Mayweather managed to bring an astounding 2.15 million homes to the pay per view channel over Cinco De Mayo weekend it must have scarred the failed Boxing promoter's emotions. In fact, if the ultimate blow to White's egotistic propaganda wasn't completely exposed in May, it must have completely manifested itself this past weekend when Mayweather and British patron Ricky Hatton drew another record breaking crowd in Las Vegas, Nevada. It's what men like De La Hoya, Mayweather, and Hatton have to offer that separate the sweet science from all forms of competition and ultimately mixed martial arts itself.

Boxing has always benefited from sheer star power. It goes back to the infamous John L. Sullivan who first catapulted the sport into the public eye throughout the end of the 19 th century. Legends and heroes have been made in the sweet science unlike any other sport before. People from all nations, cultures and ethnic heritages have been drawn to the world's most diverse profession with the help of massive star power and cult like followings. It's the secret behind the success of promoters Don King and Bob Arum in the sport of Boxing and what will ultimately be the shortcoming for Dana White and mixed martial arts in the future.

Boxing has always benefited from diversity. HBO commentator Jim Lampley has been known for saying that "Jersey's are unnecessary when a boxer is in the ring." The reason is simple. When a fighter fights, he willingly, or in some cases unwillingly, represents his race, his nation, and even his hometown when he steps in the ring as fair or unfair as this may be. Evidence of this claim is everywhere.

When Cory Spinks hosted Zab Judah in St. Louis, Missouri back in February of 2005, he was accompanied in his ring entrance by Hip Hop Star Nelly who also hails from Missouri. It was Spinks way of informing Zab that the fight had more to with hometown pride than with Spinks and Judah themselves. Indeed it was "The Jinx" way of proclaiming that the fight was more about St. Louis's tough neighborhoods being matched against the mean streets of Brooklyn. While there is no way of linking the streets of St Louis to the streets of Brooklyn through a single prizefight, Spinks and Judah knowingly were representing their neighborhoods during this encounter. They weren't the first.

When Felix Trinidad stepped into the squared combat zone on fight night throughout his entire career, he represented not only the nation of Puerto Rico but every US neighborhood with a predominant Puerto Rican culture. He benefited from a massive presence of die hard Puerto Rican fans that devoted themselves to Tito through every fight. His fans have proven to play just as much a part of his victory performances as Tito has himself. When Tito's fans are in the arena, every punch is that much harder.

Julio Cesar Chavez's fans swarmed stadiums for his fights throughout the 1990's the same way Dead Heads did their favorite rock band in the 1970's when the late, great Jerry Garcia and the Grateful Dead were in town. If one of Chavez's opponents's had a prayer of defeating the Mexican legend when battling in the ring, they had to stand up to Chavez's legion of Mexican fans. An opponent of Chavez became an opponent of Mexico and he felt it from the crowd when he entered the ring.

When a Boxer fights, he fights not only for himself. He fights for his country. He fights for his people and his people fight for him with their unwavering support and undying passion. It can be found in few sports let along mixed martial arts. The boxer is given the kind of support from his countrymen that a soldier in uniform is given when preparing for battle. When a fighter decks out his trunks in his nation's colors, he ultimately becomes his nation's soldier.

The list goes on and on. Today John Duddy and Paulie Malignaggi benefit from their ethnic heritage just as their pugilist predecessors Jack Dempsey and Rocky Marciano did before them. Just as John Duddy benefits from a devoted Irish audience, Paulie Malignaggi benefits from a wave of Italian American supporters during his fights. It's why Boxing refuses to die despite what Dana White and the anti boxing media like to portray.

Well Renowned sports journalist Bert Randolph Sugar has discussed throughout many speeches and induction excerpts at International Boxing Hall of Fame ceremonies how boxing has always benefited from an influx of culture. Other historians and fight game experts have done the same. Irish, Italian and Jewish Americans along with many other groups of ethnic white emigrants have been drawn to the sport throughout history as fighters such as Jimmy Braddock, Barney Ross and Carmen Basilio represented the American Dream for many struggling immigrant cultures. They represented the strength of their race inside the ring for those who were deprived of the chance to show their strength outside of it. In fact, it's what enabled ethnic whites to gain deserving respect throughout the early portion of the 21st century that enabled Latinos and African Americans to gain respect throughout the second half. Prid!!!

During World War II, Joe Louis gained a kind of worthy respect for African Americans that had undeservingly been deprived of them earlier. He represented not only blacks, but whites and the entire US nation against Adolf Hitler and Nazi Germany with his defeat over an unwilling Nazi representative. Max Schmeling, who later denounced the Nazi's impassionate ways, was demolished by Joe Louis in one of the century's most notable performances. Louis's victory deprived the Nazi's of their basis in their ignorant belief system that one race prevailed above all.

Later on, Muhammad Ali and Sugar Ray Leonard only elevated black interest in the sport throughout the later portion of the century as they proved what opportunities Boxing is capable of providing for underprivileged youths who may have otherwise been left without a glimpse of hope. It's what continues to draw black audiences to the sport in this era of Boxing and what prevents them from neglecting the fight game for mixed martial arts.

Today Oscar De La Hoya and Fernando Vargas represent the current influx of immigrant groups from Mexico just as Heavyweights Oleg Maskaev and Sultan Ibragimov do their Russian migrants from foreign lands as they proceed to find acceptance in a melting pot culture. Fan support and ethnic pride continues to fill stadiums to the rafters throughout all regions of the country when the right fights are made. Culture and pride go a long way especially for those who are determined to seek it.

Even beyond the US mainstream, Ricky Hatton and Manny Pacquiao continue to provide us with proof that Boxing's cultural impact is beyond comprehension. Hatton and Pacquiao show fight fans how Great Britain and the Philippines share a US passion for a beloved sport that was supposed to have been counted out years ago. The sport goes above and beyond any other in terms of warranting recognition for a deserving youth. Boxing can turn a ghetto kid into an international icon. It's what makes the game a phenomenon rather than a spectator sport.

Truth is boxing will never be counted out because as Bert Sugar has indicated it benefits from culture and star power. The sport turns immigrants into icons and the underprivileged into immortals.

Unfortunately for Dana White, the Ultimate Fighting Championships do not benefit from the kind of star power and cultural diversity that benefits boxing. Its reach does not expand the horizons of adolescence Caucasian youth the way Boxing does. While it can draw young audiences the same way that the WWE and the WWF has in the past, it's what it can't create that will hurt its long term health in the future.

UFC Champion Chuck Liddell was the closest thing that Dana White had to star power for the many Caucasian youth that followed his career. However, his quick defeat at the hands of African American Quinton Jackson and the booing that followed suit from the UFC fans reminded Boxing's supporters why Mixed Martial Arts has a long way to go before it has the star power and diversity of Professional Boxing.

Dana White was not able to transfer Jackson from a Mixed Martial Arts combatant into an international star after his victory over Liddell because he didn't have a diverse enough audience to do so. To his credit, he will continue to sell UFC DVD's next to WWE collections in Wal-Mart to the adolescence Caucasian youth who follow him, but he will never see an audience of 2.15 Million for a Pay Per View event. So the next time Mr. White is interviewed and is asked about his opinions on the sport of Boxing, let fans be reminded that he did not have enough cash in the bank to persuade Floyd Mayweather into the Octagon because Floyd's star power is outside of the UFC's reach and Floyd knows better than to follow a short lived trend rather than an ancient tradition.

[IceTea]

UFC and the other styles like it appeal to Walmart Shoppers, Barroom Brawlers, and Pittsburgh Steelers fans. It really only appeals to the lowest common denominator of society. There isn't a pedigree or any sanity to the sport. Most of the fans have grown tired of the WWE and see this as a substitute. Boxing, though incredibly flawed on the professional level, has nothing to fear from mixed style barroom brawling.

We have two MMA training centers here in Utica, NY so I know what I'm talking about on this subject. The activity stinks and the sooner it returns the bars the better. It is as low brow as you can get.

MJ

[mh2365]

Good article Vaughn thanks for posting it ... My view on the sport doesn't differ any from Ice's, but there are some on here who like it.

[meade95]

The UFC Vs Boxing debate is a foolish premise from the start. Reality is Dana White is a fool for constantly trying to pit the two against each other (or more accurately, always trying to take shots at boxing).

In turn, some boxing fans (as I firmly am) also are foolish to act as if MMA is a dumb sport (or not a sport, etc, etc). Not being a fan of MMA is fine, but trying to rip on MMA is also foolish to me.

There is a saying that "a rising tide lifts all boats"......That is exactly the premise both boxing and UFC fans (and promoters) should be adhering to. Meaning the more fans that become interested in either of these sports, there will be some over-flow into each (back and forth).....Thus good for everyone.

The problem with the UFC right now is there is no real depth of talent. But then again, the world of MMA is realtively young. Less than 20 years old. And really less than 10 years old in many fundamental competitve aspects....

This "us vs them" attitude is just foolishness....... And the notion that MMA doesn't provide an opportunity to expand the horizons of youth....that is just flat out wrong. MMA is providing a huge area of opportunity that did not exist for all those with incredible wrestling pedigree's (prior). Which includes a vast segment of American youth (not to mention around the world).

And for the record those trying to compare MMA/UFC to the WWE only shows how terribly ill-informed they are on the topic. Which is fine,....yet then why would one feel the need or want to comment on the subject when it is clear they haven't taken really any time to even learn about it? I always find it odd, for people who are clearly uninformed on a topic to still insist on having a position on said topic.....regardless of that vital fact, that they don't know enough about it to begin with.

It has served me well to understand....When I don't know much about a given topic (say the workings of the diesel engine for example) I try not have an opinion on such.....Especially not one in which I am advocating one side or another....

[mh2365]

FWIW I have never claimed MMA isn't a sport as much as I dislike it. I do not think it is wrestling (which isn't a sport). I just don't care for it.

I think their fanbases are different and for the most part boxing says so. MMA tries to widen their fanbase by badmouthing boxing.

Also MMA would go a long way for themselves credibility wise if someone told Joe Rogan to STFU

[meade95]

Originally Posted by mh2365

MMA tries to widen their fanbase by badmouthing boxing.

Exactly. And they are foolish for doing so.

Bottom line is UFC/MMA is no where near what the sport of boxing is - Nor will it be likely ever in the future - But there is a place for it, in the world of sport (IMO).

Where UFC/MMA are desperately lacking is in that they have no real depth at this point.

[mh2365]

I also thinks the article makes a good point that they have no superstars. I think it would be tough to have many in the sport because the penalty for making one little mistake in a bout is far too great.

IMO you will never see Castillo vs. Corrales in a MMA bout because once a guy goes down 99% of the time that is it.

Liddell is the closest MMA has come to a superstar. Sure I've heard of other names but if you take joe/jill random off the street I bet they could name 10 boxers for every 1 MMA.

[meade95]

Originally Posted by mh2365

I also thinks the article makes a good point that they have no superstars. I think it would be tough to have many in the sport because the penalty for making one little mistake in a bout is far too great.

IMO you will never see Castillo vs. Corrales in a MMA bout because once a guy goes down 99% of the time that is it.

Liddell is the closest MMA has come to a superstar. Sure I've heard of other names but if you take joe/jill random off the street I bet they could name 10 boxers for every 1 MMA.

Agreed.

And why so many MMA/UFC fans feel the need to try and rip on boxing (including Dana White) is simply that old ugly trait of "envy".

They know they will never be what boxing is.....

With that said.....I still believe there is a place for UFC/MMA.

[hamed]

That article was interesting, I didn't realize the crowd booed after Rampage beat Chuck. I actually wondered if that would be the case since most of the fans I've seen in any MMA crowd appeared to be young white men.

Reminded me a little of a writer who complained most NBA crowds were white because they could afford the price of NBA tickets.

Ice Tea's point about the Wal-Mart crowd was also funny!

[meade95]

Originally Posted by hamed

That article was interesting, I didn't realize the crowd booed after Rampage beat Chuck. I actually wondered if that would be the case since most of the fans I've seen in any MMA crowd appeared to be young white men.

Reminded me a little of a writer who complained most NBA crowds were white because they could afford the price of NBA tickets.

Ice Tea's point about the Wal-Mart crowd was also funny!

The Rampage booing had nothing to do with race...(that silly boogeyman needs to be put to rest).......Rampage has a huge following (and has for years....which is why the UFC went out and bought him, to bring him in)....

Also, always such BS for "writers" to whine about what "color" NBA crowds are...(yet, they are supposedly the enlightened one's who "don't see color"....such BS. The fact is they are the one's consumed by it!). And if he believes there is some racism behind too many whites watching the NBA games via purchased tickets......Well then what he is saying economically is......There is a huge profit to be made by buying an NBA team and focusing on the forgotten market of black fans to fill his arena with. (good luck).

Ahh, but it is much easier to deal with silly notions of racism...when facts and reality prove to burdensome.

As for Wal-Mart and UFC fans........I think that is where I tend to buy my BOXING magazines......? Huh? What does that say about the sport of boxing? I also find it funny those trying to bring up "race" as an issue against UFC........Are also trying to find humor is degrading those who shop at Wal-Mart.

[Lee]

Agreed about Rampage, he is huge in Japan and has his fans here, he is a MMA version of PBF, he talks a lot (can usually back it up) and that turns some people off. Matt Hughes and Chuck Liddell are close to mainstream stars, but Hughes has a bland personality and while Liddell has a appeal he has been beaten recently (as has Hughes)

MMA will never really have an icon because there is always a chance that even the best Fighters can get caught by a punch or in a bad situation on the ground. It is a controlled street fight and anything can happen in that situation. Both are sports, but boxing is an art form. It is more structured and because the skills are so specialized no MMA fighter will ever have the "boxing" skills of a professional Boxer. Chuck Liddell is a great striker, but do you really see him beating any of the top cruiserweights? Likewise Tim Sylvia, could he be HW boxing champ? No.

MMA has a strong niche appeal with the 15-35 crowd because it is violent and unpredictable. Boxing needs to get some big fights on network TV again. Reduce the number of "world" title and start marketing itself better (MMA does a much better job of that IMO)

Of course these are all old arguments and we all know what would help Boxing. Just wish someone would do it.

[hamed]

The Wal-Marts in your area must be different because I've never ever seen a boxing mag in any of the 4 in this area. I'm only able to buy boxing mags @ either book stores or at grocery stores every once in a while.

[mh2365]

I do route sales for magazines and I put Ring in both Wal-mart and Kroger but only about 3 copies come in each month for each store and I usually sell out though.

I've just started getting some MMA magazines in and like the wrestling mags, they get read instore a lot. I usually return the majority of them.

In all honesty I have never heard of Matt Hughes, I read espn.com all the time and watch ESPN all the time. So I don't know how average joe would have heard of him.

[hamed]

Originally Posted by mh2365

In all honesty I have never heard of Matt Hughes, I read espn.com all the time and watch ESPN all the time. So I don't know how average joe would have heard of him.

That line made me laugh. I actually heard of him & have seen him on TV because my brother follows MMA.

[mh2365]

Seriously .. I've heard of a few MMAer's but Hughes isn't one of them. Of course the first time I saw Liddell was on Entourage .... so draw your own conclusions LOL.

I don't like the sport .. but it's still a sport, just like soccer!

[hamed]

^ I hear ya, Mike.

[meade95]

Originally Posted by mh2365

Seriously .. I've heard of a few MMAer's but Hughes isn't one of them. Of course the first time I saw Liddell was on Entourage .... so draw your own conclusions LOL.

I don't like the sport .. but it's still a sport, just like soccer!

Umm, Soccer is a sport (true).....for girls to play.

[mh2365]

Originally Posted by meade95

Umm, Soccer is a sport (true).....for girls to play.

well I see MMA and Soccer on the same level .. I don't care for either of them but they do have their fan bases.

[hamed]

While soccer will probably never be as big in the US as it is worldwide, it will be interesting to see if MMA has the staying power of either soccer or boxing - sports that have been around for a very long time.

[Mr Big]

I believe that the rise in popularity of the UFC is reflective of society itself. Today, it seems as if everything has to be extreme, or over the top in some way. When I was a kid, you could just play frisbee. Now it has to be "extreme" frisbee. Most kids today would rather watch the X games and some "athlete" skateboarding or jumping a bike over dirt mounds instead of settling in and watching a good baseball game. Sadly, boxing is simply too tame and civilized for those whose bloodlust requires increasingly vicious hand to hand combat. Reminiscent of the days of the gladiator in ancient Rome. Let's hope that things don't digress to that extreme.