Boxing Simulation Fun

[Smallzworld]

I've been inspired by this simulation. So I started making a little simulation in flash.

Simulator
Database

It's not much at the moment. I went with my matchup of the year - Pavlik vs Taylor.

Soon it'll display the ratings and more info about what's going on. Feel free to let me know if you think I've rated them incorrectly (I'm definitely biased towards Pavlik at the moment)

[mh2365]

Originally Posted by Smallzworld

I've been inspired by this simulation. So I started making a little simulation in flash.

boxing

It's not much at the moment. I went with my matchup of the year - Pavlik vs Taylor.

Soon it'll display the ratings and more info about what's going on. Feel free to let me know if you think I've rated them incorrectly (I'm definitely biased towards Pavlik at the moment)

really I wouldn't have guessed .. you made six posts all about Pavlik

[Smallzworld]

I'm all about a good fight. His last 5 fights, he's delivered more action than some guys do in a whole decade. That's what the sport needs is more guys who are going to go out and battle as opposed to playing patty cakes. If the sport is to rebound, we need more Pavliks.

Calzaghe vs Pavlik is what I want to see. As much as I understand that Pavlik wants all the belts, and build up is needed for such a bout(for money reasons)... I really think that's what I want to see the most. Throw a couple guys who still got legitimate zeros in the ring, and you see a real fight.

I updated the sim, now it has the ratings. What do you all think of them ? I kind of just threw them in there to get a start.

[Smallzworld]

Update - now it tracks the punch types - landed and thrown.
Update - now it actually has tendencies. Pavlik should throw more left jabs, Jermain will not jab nearly as much. Both boxers have tendencies for throwing each punch type, and with each hand.
Update - Added body/head tendency. Pavlik should throw more head shots, Taylor will go after the body. Also modified the output text a little to make it easier to follow.
Update - Added connect percentages for each punch type
Update - Added total connect percentage - includes all punches.
Update - Added a "combo effect" - basically if you land a punch, you increase your chances of throwing another consecutively. I'm going to tie this to tendencies later, as some boxers like to throw more combinations.
Update - Added some images and changed layout a little.
Update - changed URL and created database to load data from and save stats to.
Simulator
Database
Update - added ratings and tendencies tables to the Database page.

[Bronx Bomber 15]

Pretty cool. Nice work.

[Smallzworld]

Thanks.

Update
-consolidated some of the output text.
-Now when the round expires and you go to the next round.

Now I want to start working on making the damage system more realistic.

I'm thinking that it would make sense to give a fighter a certain amount of endurance. Damage takes away from your endurance, and your recovery rating determines how much you can regain between rounds. I'm also thinking that when damage is dealt a certain amount of endurance is not able to be recovered.

I'm thinking that the recovery rating will dictate how quickly you can recover, and then the conditioning rating will dictate how much damage is not able to be recovered.

What do you all think ?

Also, do you think there are too many punches per round ?

Update
- Now conditioning plays a part in how much energy can be recovered. Fighters recover energy between rounds based on recovery rating.
- Now body blows cause permanent damage -- which can't be recovered.

[mh2365]

I think TBCB is a great game and this is a forum for TBCB.

[Brooks TVB]

Originally Posted by mh2365

I think TBCB is a great game and this is a forum for TBCB.

I agree. Instead of developing your own simulation tweak your fighter's ratings in TBCB.

[Cap]

Keep up the good work. Hate to discourage your creativity. You know, Andreas could probably use some help in the programming workload department if you know about that stuff. Give him a call.

Cap

[Smallzworld]

I've been doing alot of tweaking of player's ratings in TBCB, but I think it's hard to get realistic outcomes if tendencies such as punch types don't come into play.

I don't think I'd ever have the time or attention span to actually make a competing product. This was just a little experiment. I was hoping to spur on discussion about the fight simulation aspect of TBCB.

I asked about tendencies and the only reply was that they don't exist in a meaningful way. This experiment is an example of how important they are to the very core of a boxing sim.

With punch tendencies in place, now you can have far more meaningful strategies per round an per fight. If a guy is susceptible to an uppercut because of his offensive strategy, you can decide to go for an uppercut. The realistic punch stats give you the tools as a manager to react to the other fighter's strategy.

So it gives real fight strategy to a user, and creates an effective model to increase the influence of trainers on a fight as well.

I'll move the project away from this site. But I think that it's just a visual example of the importance of tendencies and what they can mean to a boxing game.

[mh2365]

Originally Posted by Smallzworld

I've been doing alot of tweaking of player's ratings in TBCB, but I think it's hard to get realistic outcomes if tendencies such as punch types don't come into play.

I don't think I'd ever have the time or attention span to actually make a competing product. This was just a little experiment. I was hoping to spur on discussion about the fight simulation aspect of TBCB.

I asked about tendencies and the only reply was that they don't exist in a meaningful way. This experiment is an example of how important they are to the very core of a boxing sim.

With punch tendencies in place, now you can have far more meaningful strategies per round an per fight. If a guy is susceptible to an uppercut because of his offensive strategy, you can decide to go for an uppercut. The realistic punch stats give you the tools as a manager to react to the other fighter's strategy.

So it gives real fight strategy to a user, and creates an effective model to increase the influence of trainers on a fight as well.

I'll move the project away from this site. But I think that it's just a visual example of the importance of tendencies and what they can mean to a boxing game.

You were told more than they don't exist in a meaniful way but whatever. I can't believe I've been playing this game for 30 years now ... thanks for pointing out what a worthless piece of crap it is while touting your little site full of ripoff of other games.

also as far as realistic outcomes ... prove that TBCB doesn't give realistic outcomes ....

[Smallzworld]

I'm sorry that you feel the need to be insulting, not sure why.

If you want proof. Choose a fight with any fighter who is know to throw alot of jabs, and look at the outcome. You'll notice that the jab total is not in line with that fighter.

Take away the effective jab of any number of fighters who utilize it in their strategy, and it's a completely different match. I don't think I'm making a bold statement in saying that the jab is incredibly important.

Punch tendencies/strategies are extremely important in real life, so likewise in a simulation they should be as well.

Sorry if you don't agree and want to berate me based on my hobby of making games as opposed to discussing what could improve the TBCB's fight simulation.

Should I just take that as your opinion ? That punch tendencies are pretty much insignificant in simulating a boxing match ? If so, we disagree. I know I can move on from that without insulting you.

[mh2365]

How was the result of the fight? Who won? So the jabs weren't correct but what was the result of the fight?

I wasn't insultive to you but you seem quite good at putting words in my mouth or omitting things that I have said so I'm sure you thing your were insulted .... but you do realize that you are on a TBCB forum trying to tell us all that TBCB blows and is unrealistic while your little program does things right which it really doesn't.

Edit - Maybe I was insultive, but you seem to have an asteriods ripoff, a tetris ripoff, and several others so I was just commenting on what I was seeing ... of course I didn't do it on a smallZworld game forum.

[Smallzworld]

Originally Posted by mh2365

You were told more than they don't exist in a meaniful way but whatever.

Here's your quote :

"Like the board game "type of punch" is really just window dressing in this game. We have made changes to the commentary to try and limit the knockdowns from jabs but for the type of punches to really mean anything there would have to be a change to the engine ... which is quite a ways off."

Does this suggest that type of punch exists in a "meaningful way" ? These are your words, not mine. Jabs causing knockdowns is hardly what I would consider meaningful.

I'm just trying to be constructive about what could be done to improve. I'm not demanding anything, I'm just discussing and even giving examples of how it could improve the game.

I am well aware of how implementing changes like I have suggested would require quite a bit of work and balancing. Is it worth it ? My opinion is yes. Yours is obviously "no". I'm cool with that.

Somehow I feel as if you are looking to argue as opposed to discuss.

[Smallzworld]

Originally Posted by mh2365

How was the result of the fight? Who won? So the jabs weren't correct but what was the result of the fight?

I wasn't insultive to you but you seem quite good at putting words in my mouth or omitting things that I have said so I'm sure you thing your were insulted .... but you do realize that you are on a TBCB forum trying to tell us all that TBCB blows and is unrealistic while your little program does things right which it really doesn't.

Edit - Maybe I was insultive, but you seem to have an asteriods ripoff, a tetris ripoff, and several others so I was just commenting on what I was seeing ... of course I didn't do it on a smallZworld game forum.

I'm sorry you don't enjoy the games. Not sure what they mean to the punch tendencies conversation.

I didn't put words in your mouth, I was asking you if that was your opinion.

I also didn't say the simulation blows. I suggested areas of improvement.

I didn't say that my engine does everything right, it's not even close to being as comprehensive as TBCB.

I just gave an example of how punch tendencies can affect a match pretty drastically. Discussing things like that could be useful to improving the sim.

Insulting and berating is pursuing a different goal. Not even sure what your goal is to be honest.

[mh2365]

You are not worth my effort ... everyone enjoy hiz little gamez and I'll just be here playing my worthlezz little game that I have played for 30 yearz.

Notice he avoided my questions about the results of the fight ... so he cares more about what type of punches the guys are throwing then whether or not the result is correct ... see I can play the "put words in your mouth" game too.

[Smallzworld]

How did I avoid a question ? I told you to choose any fight with a guy who uses a jab.

"If you want proof. Choose a fight with any fighter who is know to throw alot of jabs, and look at the outcome. You'll notice that the jab total is not in line with that fighter."


So.... -- A question here-- If the outcome is correct in terms of win/lose, how you got there isn't important to the simulation ? Is that what you are saying ? again.. a question, not putting words in your mouth.

So... answer if you want. And we can have a discussion.

As much as I'd like to discuss.. I think you'll continue to "insult" - but feel free to do so, if that's who you are.. I'm not here to change you.

[Smallzworld]

now I'm getting the feeling that you have a problem with the "z" in Smallzworld.

Does it make you angry ?


It's really not that bad.

[mh2365]

Originally Posted by Smallzworld

How did I avoid a question ? I told you to choose any fight with a guy who uses a jab.

"If you want proof. Choose a fight with any fighter who is know to throw alot of jabs, and look at the outcome. You'll notice that the jab total is not in line with that fighter."


So.... -- A question here-- If the outcome is correct in terms of win/lose, how you got there isn't important to the simulation ? Is that what you are saying ? again.. a question, not putting words in your mouth.

So... answer if you want. And we can have a discussion.

As much as I'd like to discuss.. I think you'll continue to "insult" - but feel free to do so, if that's who you are.. I'm not here to change you.

First off I haven't begun to insult because honestly what would be the point you are really not worth it and I'm pretty sure I have already been through all of this with you on the maxboxing board, not that you would admit it.

Secondly we all know that this current engine is based off the board game. Punch type did not matter in the board game and this engine is based off it. My orginal comment to you is that a change in the engine would be needed and that wasn't coming anytime in the near future. You took that to mean that we didn't think it mattered ... putting words in my mouth.

The end result matters much much much much more than the amount of jabs thrown per round. If you don't believe so then so be it ... the type of punch is secondary to the result of the fight ... once again that doesn't mean I don't think it is important.

I don't even think you have bought the game or tried to play it more than once or twice (now say you have and we'll all believe it )... yet you badmouth it ... just like you did on maxboxing. You simmed one fight and saw that you boy Pavlik didn't throw 107 jabs in a round and land 105 (like he does in your little sim) and declared the game crap. Then proceeded to direct people to your little sim ... I called your BS on it and you got insulted ... despite the fact that I didn't insult you ...

and yes I think the use of z's anywhere that doesn't call for it is completely retarded .. but more than likely that is because I'm 40.

If I was angry I would just close the thread ... now do your thing ... I will only respond to you from now on when you badmouth the game.

[Smallzworld]

Originally Posted by mh2365

First off I haven't begun to insult because honestly what would be the point you are really not worth it and I'm pretty sure I have already been through all of this with you on the maxboxing board, not that you would admit it.

Secondly we all know that this current engine is based off the board game. Punch type did not matter in the board game and this engine is based off it. My orginal comment to you is that a change in the engine would be needed and that wasn't coming anytime in the near future. You took that to mean that we didn't think it mattered ... putting words in my mouth.

The end result matters much much much much more than the amount of jabs thrown per round. If you don't believe so then so be it ... the type of punch is secondary to the result of the fight ... once again that doesn't mean I don't think it is important.

I don't even think you have bought the game or tried to play it more than once or twice (now say you have and we'll all believe it )... yet you badmouth it ... just like you did on maxboxing. You simmed one fight and saw that you boy Pavlik didn't throw 107 jabs in a round and land 105 (like he does in your little sim) and declared the game crap. Then proceeded to direct people to your little sim ... I called your BS on it and you got insulted ... despite the fact that I didn't insult you ...

and yes I think the use of z's anywhere that doesn't call for it is completely retarded .. but more than likely that is because I'm 40.

If I was angry I would just close the thread ... now do your thing ... I will only respond to you from now on when you badmouth the game.

1. I think you are misplacing some anger about someone on maxboxing towards me. -- obviously. This is a "perception" issue.

2. I never implied that anything didn't matter to you. Here's the quote :
"I asked about tendencies and the only reply was that they don't exist in a meaningful way."

That in no way says they don't matter. It's saying that they "don't exist in a meaningful way". It has no bearing on whether they matter or not. It's a statement about whether they exist or not.

Once again, a perception issue. I have no idea how you percieved that statement as saying it doesn't matter to you.

3. I don't own the game. I played the demo, and I have been simming games. I didn't state anything incorrect, try it yourself. I never once said that the game was crap -- Please show me where I said anything remotely close to that. Once again your perception.

4. My sim doesnt land 105 of 107 jabs, so that's just kind of ridiculous to even say. But... It's closer to reality than 34. But... I'm sure you'll percieve that fact as an attack on you from somebody at maxboxing or whatever.

5. you said.. and I quote "Maybe I was insultive, but.." You even admitted your own insult. Honestly, do you realize how silly this is ? Now you are saying you didn't. Which is it ? I'll go with whatever you say, if it helps you deal with this perception issue.

6. I am puzzled as to why you haven't closed this thread already, cause your perception of everything is completely off. Why stop now ?

The trend of you perceiving things wrong pretty much speaks for itself. Doesn't it ?

I'm really OK with you not liking the z. really

I only pray that you and your friend on maxboxing work things out so we can put this all behind us

Who would "ever" think that you might be angry based on the tone of your posts ? now really... THAT is just plain silly.

So does that mean you'll respond when I say something that you "perceive" as badmouthing the game ? If so, I'm sure I'll be hearing from your again really soon.