A new way of "universing"

[krytenx]

Jade,

Thank you

this Great

You are doing an excellent Job.

Please, keep improving it

Thanx

[duff88]

Jade,

You seem to have done an incredible work with this project. I have to say though that it is kind of overwhelming to try and learn how to run the excel page at first; would it be possible to include a readme file with some tips on how to get started? Or maybe you posted it somewhere in this thread and I didn't notice.

When I open the file, there are already some "Tester" fighters and I can't figure out how to remove them completely. Whenever I try to add fighters by adding their names in the "pool" section, they are randomly added to the list.

All in all, I can't figure out how to use the program effectively.

[gocubsgo]

Duff i am right there with you. I put some fighters in the Pool and some of them imported but then some other fighters were imported from where i am not sure. A quick tutorial or read me would be great. It appears this file will do a whole bunch to make this game better but it is tough to figure out.

[gocubsgo]

Okay after experimenting a bit it appears that the scheduler does not differentiate between the ratings for a fighter. So in theory you could have some of the better fighters fighting each other a lot to start a universe off instead of fighting TCs to build up their record. No big deal but i just wanted to be sure that i wasn't missing something. So for example a guy might have fought a bunch of good fighters and have a .500 record and not be ranked very highly. I am going to give this a whirl over the next couple of days with a group of 50 fighters to start and see how things work out.

[gocubsgo]

Quick question. Lets say i want to schedule a fight for a regional title, how would i manually enter a fight and is there a way to make this a regional title fight, if that makes a difference in the rankings?

[jade_00]

Originally Posted by duff88

Jade,

You seem to have done an incredible work with this project. I have to say though that it is kind of overwhelming to try and learn how to run the excel page at first; would it be possible to include a readme file with some tips on how to get started? Or maybe you posted it somewhere in this thread and I didn't notice.

When I open the file, there are already some "Tester" fighters and I can't figure out how to remove them completely. Whenever I try to add fighters by adding their names in the "pool" section, they are randomly added to the list.

All in all, I can't figure out how to use the program effectively.

Oh you're right - the first file I posted had a README, but I've since deleted that and haven't added it in with subsequent updates. I should be able to get that on here in a couple hours.

[jade_00]

Originally Posted by gocubsgo

Okay after experimenting a bit it appears that the scheduler does not differentiate between the ratings for a fighter. So in theory you could have some of the better fighters fighting each other a lot to start a universe off instead of fighting TCs to build up their record. No big deal but i just wanted to be sure that i wasn't missing something. So for example a guy might have fought a bunch of good fighters and have a .500 record and not be ranked very highly. I am going to give this a whirl over the next couple of days with a group of 50 fighters to start and see how things work out.

You are 100% right, it does NOT take rating into account - but there is method to the madness. The idea to me was, as a universe you shouldn't really 'know' how good a bad a fighter is when he begins. Hence they are all treated equally. As a result, in my universe, poor Archie Moore had a very unlucky run with matchups (Berbick, Jeffries and Wills) and ended up with a less then 0.500 record. As a result he was looked at as a Journeyman for the beginning of his career. This had an interesting end result though, because he obviousy then strung quite a few wins together and was all of a sudden climbing the rankings. Sort of reminded me a bit of say, an Antonio Margarito. You'll find that mostly though, good fighters will escape their first 5, 10, 15 fights largely unscathed. I like that randomness though.

[jade_00]

Originally Posted by gocubsgo

Quick question. Lets say i want to schedule a fight for a regional title, how would i manually enter a fight and is there a way to make this a regional title fight, if that makes a difference in the rankings?

I had a think about this. At the moment the sheet will only recognise a single champion, and no regionals. However, I really want to incorporate this though. Its quite easy to do, and I can have the sheet treat that titleholder in anyway you like (rankings, scheduling etc etc), but I just haven't quite gotten to it yet.

[barkflex]

If I may add another suggestion, it would be great if the sheet would allow to set starting records for fighters. Makes the initial years of a universe easier. No biggie though.

[gocubsgo]

I think setting the initial records would mess with the whole ranking.

After spending a good amount of time with this last night it is amazing how well this works. If only this worked within the game. A couple of things that would make this even better.

1. Being able to have multiple titles
2. Being able to export the schedule to the scheduler within the game.
3. Being able to have your fighters scheduled against TCs initially.

Right now it is a little cumbersome to generate a schedule and then go back into the game and set these fights up, sim them and then come back to the sheet and record your decisions. I am using 40 fighters right now so it is not terrible but i can see this being a bit of a pain with 200-300 fighters, but i will agree this program rocks.

[jade_00]

Originally Posted by barkflex

If I may add another suggestion, it would be great if the sheet would allow to set starting records for fighters. Makes the initial years of a universe easier. No biggie though.

Although I didn't do it deliberately, this CAN be done. If you have a look at the 'Active' sheet, and scroll to the right you will notice at the end the actual results of the bouts are stored. If you were to enter "WK", "WK", "WK" etc etc say 10 times, this would interpret that particular fighter as having a 10-0-0 (10 KOs) record, and hence start him later.

[jade_00]

Originally Posted by gocubsgo

I think setting the initial records would mess with the whole ranking.

After spending a good amount of time with this last night it is amazing how well this works. If only this worked within the game. A couple of things that would make this even better.

1. Being able to have multiple titles

I agree, i'll work on this. Seems pretty straightforward though. Question though, do you want regional titles? Multiple world titles? Both? And how do you want the game to react to that? Ie. Is that fighter then ranked higher? Fight more often etc etc.

Originally Posted by gocubsgo

2. Being able to export the schedule to the scheduler within the game.

I wish. Unfortunately you'd have to go back to the game creator for that

Originally Posted by gocubsgo

3. Being able to have your fighters scheduled against TCs initially.

Now this the game DOES do, but perhaps a little differently then you may have experienced in the past. The schedule for a "newcomer" basically works like this:

1) Determine whether the fighter is active
2) Roughly 80-90% chance of fighting a journeyman, OCCASIONALLY target another newcomer (seemed pretty realistic to me).
3) Target a random active journeyman.

Now the trick here is this, the scheduler works top down. And by that what I mean is that the World Champions opponent is allocated first, then the contenders, then the veterans etc etc. So what that potentially means is that the only available opponent for a ranked fighter MAY be a newcomer. You will notice that this happens more frequently with a lower amount of fighters. Once you pass the 25-30 active fighters it happens very infrequently. Another thing to watch out for is the number of Journeyman fighters available. Its a good idea that your 'Pool' contain about a 3:1 ratio of TCs before you start play. This is because they will fight more frequently, and retire faster then their better counterparts.

I'd like to point out that I deliberately made it like this, because I want Muhammad Ali and Joe Blogs the TC to start on EXACTLY the same terms. Suspend what you know to be true, because when they start their careers you don't 'KNOW' which is better then the other. The results they generate will determine that. In the universe I am running now I had some very interesting results:

- Danny Williams was unlucky enough to start his career early in the game, and was matched against superior fighters. As a result he quickly became a Journeyman. As the universe expanded, he was matched against poorer and poorer fighters and he dug himself out of a hole.

- Trevor Berbick dodged a bullet and was matched against absolute hacks right up until his 15th, 16th fight. So even though I know that Jeffries was superior, he lagged behind in the rankings until they finally fought each other. Very realistic! Think Primo Carnera.......

Originally Posted by gocubsgo

Right now it is a little cumbersome to generate a schedule and then go back into the game and set these fights up, sim them and then come back to the sheet and record your decisions. I am using 40 fighters right now so it is not terrible but i can see this being a bit of a pain with 200-300 fighters, but i will agree this program rocks.

Yes I found the same, but until such a time that the game can support an import of a schedule this is the limit we work with.

[barkflex]

Originally Posted by jade_00

Although I didn't do it deliberately, this CAN be done. If you have a look at the 'Active' sheet, and scroll to the right you will notice at the end the actual results of the bouts are stored. If you were to enter "WK", "WK", "WK" etc etc say 10 times, this would interpret that particular fighter as having a 10-0-0 (10 KOs) record, and hence start him later.

Thanks for the hint! Another question, is there a way that I can choose who is going to become active next? In case I badly need to add a couple of cans. I know I could workaround this to get to the desired result but is there an actual option?

[gocubsgo]

I agree, i'll work on this. Seems pretty straightforward though. Question though, do you want regional titles? Multiple world titles? Both? And how do you want the game to react to that? Ie. Is that fighter then ranked higher? Fight more often etc etc.

I honestly am not quite sure about this. What i have in one of my current worlds is the Ring Title which is the top of the mountain, next down are the WBA/WBC/WBO and then finally i have the regional titles like the NABF/EBU. The problem i see is that for the smaller regional titles you need to be able to sort by country.

Now this the game DOES do, but perhaps a little differently then you may have experienced in the past. The schedule for a "newcomer" basically works like this:

1) Determine whether the fighter is active
2) Roughly 80-90% chance of fighting a journeyman, OCCASIONALLY target another newcomer (seemed pretty realistic to me).
3) Target a random active journeyman.

Now the trick here is this, the scheduler works top down. And by that what I mean is that the World Champions opponent is allocated first, then the contenders, then the veterans etc etc. So what that potentially means is that the only available opponent for a ranked fighter MAY be a newcomer. You will notice that this happens more frequently with a lower amount of fighters. Once you pass the 25-30 active fighters it happens very infrequently. Another thing to watch out for is the number of Journeyman fighters available. Its a good idea that your 'Pool' contain about a 3:1 ratio of TCs before you start play. This is because they will fight more frequently, and retire faster then their better counterparts.

I'd like to point out that I deliberately made it like this, because I want Muhammad Ali and Joe Blogs the TC to start on EXACTLY the same terms. Suspend what you know to be true, because when they start their careers you don't 'KNOW' which is better then the other. The results they generate will determine that. In the universe I am running now I had some very interesting results:

- Danny Williams was unlucky enough to start his career early in the game, and was matched against superior fighters. As a result he quickly became a Journeyman. As the universe expanded, he was matched against poorer and poorer fighters and he dug himself out of a hole.

- Trevor Berbick dodged a bullet and was matched against absolute hacks right up until his 15th, 16th fight. So even though I know that Jeffries was superior, he lagged behind in the rankings until they finally fought each other. Very realistic! Think Primo Carnera.......

I definitely understand this better now. In the universe i am testing right now i started with fighters that debuted in 1960-1964. Now i understand some guys are just gonna get some tough draws and i am beginning to kinda like this so far.

Yes I found the same, but until such a time that the game can support an import of a schedule this is the limit we work with.

No complaints here i do think this is better than the current system i use with an excel spreadsheet and a lot of work.

[gocubsgo]

One question on the scheduler, does it change the number of rounds for the fights based on the career stage or number of fights the fighter has?

[jade_00]

Originally Posted by barkflex

Thanks for the hint! Another question, is there a way that I can choose who is going to become active next? In case I badly need to add a couple of cans. I know I could workaround this to get to the desired result but is there an actual option?

Hmmmmm...... actually no. Whilst I know the necessary steps in order to make this happen (being the author and all), their is not a simple instruction I could give to achieve this. The only straightforward way would be to delete all names in the pool except the one you wanted, and then click add fighter.

[jade_00]

Originally Posted by gocubsgo

I honestly am not quite sure about this. What i have in one of my current worlds is the Ring Title which is the top of the mountain, next down are the WBA/WBC/WBO and then finally i have the regional titles like the NABF/EBU. The problem i see is that for the smaller regional titles you need to be able to sort by country.

That is not a problem. You tell me how you want it to act (including things you can't see, like Country for example) and I can work on it. I don't see that particular one being an issue though.

[jade_00]

Originally Posted by gocubsgo

One question on the scheduler, does it change the number of rounds for the fights based on the career stage or number of fights the fighter has?

Number of rounds determined as such:

World Championship = 15 rounds
A fight involving a top contender = 12 rounds
a fight involving a veteran = 10 rounds
a fight involving a prospect = 8 rounds
a fight involving a newcomer = 6 rounds
just journeyman = 4 rounds

And it always acts top down, ie. A contender v veteran = 12 rounds, a veteran v newcomer = 10 rounds etc etc

[gocubsgo]

Jade the further i get into this scheduler the more amazed i am. Okay lets say i wanted to have the setup i mentioned. RBC (Ring) as the top title. The next would be tow lesser titles which anyone could fight for such as the WBA and WBC. Then i have the following regional titles.

EBC - European boxers
AABC - Arabian/African boxers
APBC - Asian/ Pacific boxers
LABA - Latin America boxers
NABF - Canada, Mexico, Puerto Rico and USA

I know there are others that break things down further such as South Africa, Nigeria but that takes a larger universe. This is a just an idea for a setup. I am assuming along with adding the boxers names you would have to add what region they would be in. I am just throwing some ideas out there for now.

[jade_00]

Originally Posted by gocubsgo

Jade the further i get into this scheduler the more amazed i am. Okay lets say i wanted to have the setup i mentioned. RBC (Ring) as the top title. The next would be tow lesser titles which anyone could fight for such as the WBA and WBC. Then i have the following regional titles.

EBC - European boxers
AABC - Arabian/African boxers
APBC - Asian/ Pacific boxers
LABA - Latin America boxers
NABF - Canada, Mexico, Puerto Rico and USA

I know there are others that break things down further such as South Africa, Nigeria but that takes a larger universe. This is a just an idea for a setup. I am assuming along with adding the boxers names you would have to add what region they would be in. I am just throwing some ideas out there for now.

Correct. The titles themselves are very very easy, the difficult part comes when not every fighter in the universe is eligible to fight for it (as in based on nation etc). However, this one is not too hard. Being that there are around (and i'm guessing here) 200 nations, it is a relatively low variable to deal with. There are two difficulties associated here though:

1) The more titles you have, the larger the universe. Anyone trying to go to that sort of depth with fifty fighters is kidding themselves. I'd imagine closer to 500 and possibly more. And if the ACTIVE fighter list is that big, then the Pool would have to be something astronomical.

2) If people were to use fictional fighters with unrecognisable countries of origin (lets say "Pepsi Presents New Zanzibar"), then these would be ineligible for any of the said regional titles.

I was actually thinking today that the best way to go about this would be to have a control sheet listing all the currently active titles. On this sheet, you could list the criteria required for a fighter to be eligible ie. African nations for african nationals etc etc etc. As an added bonus, this method of control would mean that at any stage during your universe you could add or remove a title of any kind, based on any criteria.